Get your own Minetestserver - nope - not anymore.

[Milan*]

err.

[Milan*]

Update: rethinked initial prices and left a note about the full hardware share :)

[Milan*]

I've calculated a bit and decided to offer 6 instead of 4 servers for now.

[Milan*]

Left notes about the homefolder space.
Also there are currently three serverrequest.
Be fast if you wanna have a server too. ;)

[Milan*]

Supportchannels and Forum are now included to the description
and i tried to enhance everything a bit and added a simple FAQ.
I guess the next step should be a bit work on the homepage. :)

[Milan*]

Mapfix mod now part of the subgame:
If you ran in trouble with stucking lava, water, unexplainable shadows or light, just run /mapfix.
Also the munin monitoring mod is enabled by default now but i am still thinking if i should activate it by default for each server to my munin instance.

[Milan*]

We're down for upto 40 minutes at 11pm utc+1 since our hoster is doing a maintenance.

[Milan*]

The exampleserver is now removed. I think the Illuna servers are example enough. :)

[Milan*]

deleted

[Milan*]

Hey partypeople, something new happened!

We are not using sFTP for fileaccess anymore - instead we're providing a very handy web-filemanager which can be used for uploading/downloading/edit anything and even for git/hg/... commands!





Also you can add your homefolder in your computers filemanager!

[Milan*]

I've tried to enhance my first post a bit - suggestions welcome :)

[Milan*]

I need to do some memory recalculations - small servers are still - or again - welcome.
I am still surprised how less requests i got and how the people tricked me and didn't payd/wrote anymore.

Maybe you folks prefer an automated hosting service even when you have no mod control?
You folks are odd.

[ufa]

I need to do some memory recalculations - small servers are still - or again - welcome.
.

You mean "gratis"?

[taikedz]

I need to do some memory recalculations - small servers are still - or again - welcome.
.

You mean "gratis"?

I think that more pointedly, Milan wrote:

I am still surprised how less requests i got and how the people tricked me and didn't payd/wrote anymore.

So probably not gratis.

@Milan - probably need a deliver-on-payment scheme rather than the other way round?

[ufa]

I need to do some memory recalculations - small servers are still - or again - welcome.
.

You mean "gratis"?

I think that more pointedly, Milan wrote:

I am still surprised how less requests i got and how the people tricked me and didn't payd/wrote anymore.

So probably not gratis.

Ok, thanks and sorry :)

[Milan*]

@taikedz, i think i quite more need full automatism... .

[Gundul]

Hi friends,

about 8€/month (+1€/Gigabyte Homefolder | +50ct Monitoring | +50ct

I understand that right that, it is that homefolder where you have to store all your mod data,
player data, mapfile etc ?

That is not what I would call a transparent pricing. Most people will not even know how many
Gigabytes a mapfile will have after a few months. Plus you say you are not professionial, so
you cannot expect as a customer any warranties.

For example I would pay for 17GB SSD (you have SSD I guess) plus mods and the server
about 25 Euros a month.

I pay for my server only 10 Euro and have a professional well known hoster.


I am wondering a bit you complain about overprized hosters here:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2870&start=50#p249598

Do not take it wrong with being professional, I just want to say you do not own
an official hosting company and regarding your age there cannot be very much
of experience in running such. ( guessing from your picture)

[Milan*]

I understand that right that, it is that homefolder where you have to store all your mod data,
player data, mapfile etc ?

Yes but i did not calculate with that huge imported worlds like yours.

That is not what I would call a transparent pricing. Most people will not even know how many
Gigabytes a mapfile will have after a few months. P
...
For example I would pay for 17GB SSD (you have SSD I guess) plus mods and the server
about 25 Euros a month.

I pay for my server only 10 Euro and have a professional well known hoster.

...and i do not offer virtual servers but Minetestservers where i have the responsibility that everything works well and secure.
Also i did not say that everything has to be final - for such a special case like yours the price should be individualized indeed.
I think for your 10 Euro you do get a around 30G SSD if your hoster does not cheat and you have to install all your apps as well to it.

So guess what my 120G SSD costs and how i have to do calculations about servers i can offer to do.
Your way to judge me feels not fair.
This is not server sponsoring nor 100% non-profit.

Plus you say you are not professionial, so
you cannot expect as a customer any warranties.

I dunno where you read that i am non-professional, i sure am.
The Illuna servers and its predecessors exist for years now.
Also i have to take care about a bunch other stuff at https://tchncs.de and more which is nowhere listed.

I am wondering a bit you complain about overprized hosters here:

I complain about hosters where you pay 5 upto 40 bucks at least without modcontrol.
I think the packages of the mentioned hosters are way different to mine.
The only thing i am lacking (yet) is complete shutdown and manual startup plus live-log.
These things are not done yet because i need to invest my time somewhere else when this service isn't running.

Thanks for making me hope that this s**t will succeed! <3

I just want to say you do not own
an official hosting company

What kind of idiot would i be to announce a business where i dunno if it has any chance to succeed?!

and regarding your age there cannot be very much
of experience in running such.

I am looking that young? Thank you!

[Gundul]

I understand that right that, it is that homefolder where you have to store all your mod data,
player data, mapfile etc ?

Yes but i did not calculate with that huge imported worlds like yours.

Not imported, 100% generated. After two month 2.5 GB now running 1.5 years and 17,5GB.
When you have more than 2 players and some like exploring the world that is quickly done.

That is not what I would call a transparent pricing. Most people will not even know how many
Gigabytes a mapfile will have after a few months. P
...
For example I would pay for 17GB SSD (you have SSD I guess) plus mods and the server
about 25 Euros a month.

I pay for my server only 10 Euro and have a professional well known hoster.

...and i do not offer virtual servers but Minetestservers where i have the responsibility that everything works well and secure.
Also i did not say that everything has to be final - for such a special case like yours the price should be individualized indeed.
I think for your 10 Euro you do get a around 30G SSD if your hoster does not cheat and you have to install all your apps as well to it.

So guess what my 120G SSD costs and how i have to do calculations about servers i can offer to do.
Your way to judge me feels not fair.
This is not server sponsoring nor 100% non-profit.

Not fair is to charge noobs for GB in home directories which they cannot calculate in advance.
You still lack an answer why you choose that very intransparent pricing.

So you running a profit commercial hosting business without owning a company. That I would
call highly illegal in Germany :)

Using a free open source forum website for commercial advertisements and blaming other hosters
of being over prized. In Germany we call this "unlauterer Wettbewerb" which is punishable by law.

Plus you say you are not professionial, so
you cannot expect as a customer any warranties.

I dunno where you read that i am non-professional, i sure am.
The Illuna servers and its predecessors exist for years now.
Also i have to take care about a bunch other stuff at https://tchncs.de and more which is nowhere listed.

I explained what I meant by non-professional. Somehow that did not made it in your quote below.

Nevertheless you lack of any prove of that. Owning a minetest server and a website does not
make someone a professional. Even I can do that.
Your Website tchncs.de is even lacking an impressum. That is again against any laws and does
not make someone feel contacting to a professional hoster.
No warranties, no guaranties. That is good for you and bad for the customer (nor is it fair)

I just want to say you do not own
an official hosting company

What kind of idiot would i be to announce a business where i dunno if it has any chance to succeed?!

What proves that you offer commercial hosting without owning a company. see above.

and regarding your age there cannot be very much
of experience in running such.

I am looking that young? Thank you!

Yes you do. And judging from your answers, you are probably even
younger than I thought.

You should be really careful of what you are offering here to the public
including your comments concerning other hosters.

I just think that the idea of Open Source is not about money making and
profit. In my eyes these kids and youngsters who look for a server like you
offer should not be ripped off to make some money, but advised how to
set up a server on their home computer or a cheap vpn.
I do not like hosters like minetesthosting, too. But at least they pay taxes,
take the risk of their businesses and show some responsibilty.
[Edit]
Forget the last sentence. Just come from minetesthosting website. Looks
like that one is illegal too, lol.

[Milan*]

Heh. So they shall go to minetesthosting.com now.
Screw this.

[Milan*]

Waaaaait - i just read this again.

1. My homepage is not lacking an impressum - it is just placed where it might(!) be needed.
When you try to punch me this way, take a closer look.
Also it was at the minetestserver.hosting website you storyteller!

2. Yes, i miscalculated the diskspace - and the restriction is/was there for two reasons:
-> i cannot risk running out of space
-> i calculated with my servers use where i got around 8G after two years using the ssdb nosql server. We did not generate a full-range since it does not make any sense but you are right in the point that i did not forbid this for the clients which may bring them in unexpected trouble - which wouldn't be "that" problem because i have serverside complete-backups and the client backups *outside* the user directory.
However - i am not an asshole and won't make anyone pay for my personal miscalculations. We are not at Minecraft here.

You still lack an answer why you choose that very intransparent pricing.

You could try to talk to me an other way ...maybe... dunno... friendly?
Beside - you didn't really define what part is intransparent for you.

"So guess what my 120G SSD costs and how i have to do calculations about servers i can offer to do."
...did you even read this? hexa core 3.5GHz... full ssd... clean kvm (no provider cheating)... 12 gigs of ram, ddos protection (you are going to try this, right? :)), automated and manual full-backups, about 5 ip adresses with reverse dns and all this shit, ipv4+ipv6, parts i forgot, setup and maintenance time... what the heck shall i explain you more?!
Oh right, even the domain costs money! You won't believe it!
This is not a common hetzner vps like yours!

So you running a profit commercial hosting business without owning a company. That I would
call highly illegal in Germany :)

Did you ever heard about "Untergrenze" (bottom line)?

Using a free open source forum website for commercial advertisements and blaming other hosters
of being over prized. In Germany we call this "unlauterer Wettbewerb" which is punishable by law.

I thinked a long time if i am still in the right to tell my opinion without mentioning names directly.
Since my little test was failing 'til then i decided yes, i am in the right to tell my opinion about 40$ for no modcontrol! And you are free to show me in which way it is forbidden to use the official forum for this. I have seen commercial projects using open source platforms in the past. That we have not to pay for forum access shouldn't be an argument as well.



...
My goal was to give a fair priced alternative where i got a few - not much but a few bucks for my work and would be able to pay the (upcoming) hostmachine.
I provided a place on a highend machine and full modcontrol.
Even this shutdown/startup stuff was already nearly ready so not only /restart was available.
The live-log was also already working in its base.
A second goal was to be at least able to rent a specific machine just for this service - sorry, but when you host the servers for free, this is not possible.
I am only human and humans can do miscalculation but as i wrote - i am not an asshole and i would had correct this failure asap without making clients cry.
Thank you Gundul.

[TumeniNodes]

I don't think anyone in this community has had any issue regarding Milan offering server space here at a pretty low cost, in my opinion.
I honestly do not think he is making a huge profit from it, if one considers what he is asking and what is being provided.
I think he is genuine in being happy to be able to offer hosting to users who cannot afford other options. (and they do pop in to post looking for such quite often here)

I am almost certain if there were a problem it would have been discussed/handled a while ago.
Some MT users are young and not able to afford higher/competitive prices elsewhere.

And it seems perfectly ok for individuals to give their opinion regarding pricing of products.

But this is all I'm going to say on the matter... "this is not my locker..."

[Nabi]

Milan you are a great person !! :D

[Milan*]

Thanks TumeniNodes&Nabi. :)

[afflatus]

So you running a profit commercial hosting business without owning a company. That I would
call highly illegal in Germany :)

Using a free open source forum website for commercial advertisements and blaming other hosters
of being over prized. In Germany we call this "unlauterer Wettbewerb" which is punishable by law.

I just think that the idea of Open Source is not about money making and
profit. In my eyes these kids and youngsters who look for a server like you
offer should not be ripped off to make some money, but advised how to
set up a server on their home computer or a cheap vpn.

Gundul appears to have some misconceptions about OpenSource. I don't know if German business law is stricter than other places, but in most places running a free market economy this would be normal business practice. In the UK it all pretty much depends on the contract you make. If you don't like the deal you go somewhere else.

The idea that Open Source is not about money making and profit is absolute nonsense. It is about freedom and that includes the freedom to earn a living. Gundul needs to study the wording of the (L)GPL a bit better and refrain from trolling.

I'm sorry things didn't work out for you Milan

[taikedz]

... I am not sure I correctly read what happened here...

Milan, I must say you've handled this conversation well and I'm sorry to see you retiring your offer. You seemed to be the more likely person to be able to run a community-oriented hosting service to success. Apparently, there is still much to be done here.

Thanks for your efforts.

[taikedz]

I guess this thread is nice and dead. Congrats Gundul, you killed it.

But for those who might be concerned about Gundul's claims:

So you running a profit commercial hosting business without owning a company. That I would
call highly illegal in Germany :)

Citation needed. In America, France and the UK, it is not necessary to operate through a Limited Company / Société à Responsabilité Limitée to earn money or charge for a service. I highly doubt there is a lack of concept of a sole/independent trader in German commercial law.

Oh hah see -yes, it exists https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freier_Beruf_(Deutschland)

I just think that the idea of Open Source is not about money making and
profit.

On the contrary, it is quintessentially important to build businesses on open source software as opposed to any proprietary solutions.

I feel I should be clear about this one -- Open Source is ENTIRELY about business. (vide a opensource.org's own website). This is the assertion and complaint that the Free Software Foundation is at pains to point out all the time.

https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sof ... eedom.html

Even if you tell me that Free Software should not be chargeable, the main beard RMS in charge of defining the philosophy of Software Freedom has asserted that you can charge whatever you want for Free Software.

Again, it is of vital importance for businesses, especially massively profit-oriented businesses, to run on open source software, and not on proprietary software.

In my eyes these kids and youngsters who look for a server like you
offer should not be ripped off to make some money, but advised how to
set up a server on their home computer or a cheap vpn.

Regarding teaching people (adults and kids alike) - there are guides on that, I've written a number of posts on the topic, I've personally assisted a couple people one-on one, and you know what? They don't really want to deal with all that technical crap. They want a game server. If they are personally invested, they will know how to do their own research.

Also, aside from the fact that if they open their firewalls improperly they're liable to put their own home systems at risk (thank you "Internet of Things" for further compounding this issue), if they don't secure their public server properly, they become a vector for the distribution of spam and malware, not to mention being roped in as part of a botnet.

If they're going to pay $5 a month for a "cheap VPN service" (which btw is ANOTHER impediment in the network stack for managing forwarding and increasing latency), they're likely to then think well, let's pay $5 a month to someone who can actually look after all this instead of giving myself a headache.

Finally, kids can't buy a subscription to a cheap VPN provider either. Kids aren't the goal of paid hosting. Adults who want to have a server but can't be bothered maintaining the nuts and bolts are the goal.

[Gundul]

The discussion took a bit a wrong turn.

I am not storytelling nor trolling.
Provided website from milan: https://tchncs.de/
Minetesthosting: http://www.minetesthosting.com/

There is no imprint/impressum. only email provided.
I do not know where milan made the screenshot, there is nothing showing in my browser window.
Try find yourself . I am using firefox not outdated, so I guess it should show up somewhere.
Same for MThosting. (which might be a bit different having servers in the US)

When doing commercial business in Germany you need a tax id. §5 TMG says imprint must be
easy accessible and show also tax information.

Opening a small company (Kleingewerbe) is cheap in Germany and does not need much of
bureaucracy. (<100 Euro). So what is the problem ? Every one is able to post a licence only
for offering a self written mod in this forum for legal issues, but offering illegal hosting is being
tolerated ???

It is not me closing his offer it was his own decision to do so.
Regarding the legal issue it wasn't the worst idea I guess. Internet is full of
lawyers just looking out for making a few hundred bucks of such things.

I said his offer is intransparent because home directory only offers low number
of GB, while world data is dynamically generated. Extra GB extra charged with
1 euro/GB each, which makes it not transparent for newcomers to calculate the
real price after server running some months. Also it is unclear where backup
data is stored.

Of course milan has the right to tell his opinion. The same right as I have.
Things get a bit different if you offer commercial services. When you
blame your concurrent being over prized while you own the same business
as he does, things can get a bit complicated.

So next time I would think twice, this world isn't black and white where minecraft
and MThosting are the evil and milan the bright star. All information given from
him can be believed or not. Some may know him, me and most potential customers
do not.

And yes I was wrong saying open source can not be commercial. I did not meant it in general.
In my opinion minetest game should not be commercialized. Let it say that way.

[Milan*]

I am sure you visited my webpages before you started your little leisure activities.
The minetestserver.hosting(!) page is temporaly removed for securing myself.
Not quite sure why you now coming to me and use this as an argument against me or did you really forget to check out my webpresence for this service? :D

Reminder: it looked like this:


Maybe you have luck with some webarchive of you don't trust this screenshot.

The imprint at tchncs.de is there where it is supposed to be due the german law.
Keep searching rofl.
Beside - the "commercial business" is not my tchncs.de page.
tchncs.de is yet an overview about all my free accessable stuff.
The only thing you can do with money there is supporting me with a donation.

Why i had a problem to pre-announce a company is not your business.

It is not me closing his offer it was his own decision to do so.

Open your eyes my lovely troll, you ruined this thread - everyone who scrolls down sees this mess.
Beside that - i don't really have the energy for this kind of discussions and i have a tiny bit of fear that someone like you is trying to make my life even worse right after finding the imprint.

Maybe some day yourself will grow up and you will understand what you have done to me.

And just one side note:
You mentioned a few posts before that people should get help to get their own server.
For sure i would help where i can - the one thing does not block the other thing.