FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

Hey folks,

As an experiment, I decided to try setting up a minetest server on a Ubuntu 12.04 virtual machine via Windows Azure. Anyway, it seems to be working so far.

EDIT:

Well, it was fun while it lasted, but unfortunately the free trial server just couldn't handle the demands of being a minetest server after the world had been built up a fair bit (the map size was ~200MB); despite removing a number of mods in order to help ease the strain, it just isn't playable on there anymore. Thanks to all the folks who played on it the last few weeks, and hopefully I'll see you around on other servers sometime soon.

I realise this is pretty disappointing - I'm pretty bummed out about it as well - but as I mentioned when I first posted this:

Hopefully it'll be running for awhile, but as I mentioned it's a bit of an experiment, so no guarantees. Please don't get upset if it gets reset, shutdown, etc.


Thanks again,

Grog

Just added the sethome mod so you don't get lost...

What, no homedecor+moretrees+plantlife? :-)

Also, it's good to see that you're still around.

I wondered when you would start a server. You've been here since before me. Nice server.

VanessaE wrote:What, no homedecor+moretrees+plantlife? :-)

Also, it's good to see that you're still around.

Moretrees is incompatible with the stable version of the game, which he seems to be running.

Is current plantlife still compatible?

Both require recent git, rather than stable. Oh well, eventually he'll see the light. ;-)

On a testing server such as yours, it's useful to run the development version, but in non-testing environments that serve multiple users (web servers, Minetest servers, servers in general), I honestly think it's a better idea to use stable software.

I find the current development branch pretty stable. I usually have more problems with mods crashing my server than the engine.

BrandonReese wrote:I find the current development branch pretty stable. I usually have more problems with mods crashing my server than the engine.

"Stable" is not the same thing as "bug-free". I don't know if you are getting those two mixed up, but someone I know thought that "unstable" meant "buggy". By definition, the development version is unstable. Either that or no one is working on it.

0gb.us wrote:

BrandonReese wrote:I find the current development branch pretty stable. I usually have more problems with mods crashing my server than the engine.

"Stable" is not the same thing as "bug-free". I don't know if you are getting those two mixed up, but someone I know thought that "unstable" meant "buggy". By definition, the development version is unstable. Either that or no one is working on it.

I do tend to equate unstable with buggy, but you are correct by definition the development version is unstable. I'll rephrase.

I find the current development version bug free enough to use on a daily basis.

BrandonReese wrote:

0gb.us wrote:

BrandonReese wrote:I find the current development branch pretty stable. I usually have more problems with mods crashing my server than the engine.

"Stable" is not the same thing as "bug-free". I don't know if you are getting those two mixed up, but someone I know thought that "unstable" meant "buggy". By definition, the development version is unstable. Either that or no one is working on it.

I do tend to equate unstable with buggy, but you are correct by definition the development version is unstable. I'll rephrase.

I find the current development version bug free enough to use on a daily basis.

There are several reasons why using the unstable version for (non-testing) servers is a bad idea, most of them relating to compatibility or bugs. If bugs don't seem to be an issue, let's focus on compatibility.

Not everyone can/wants to use the development version, so you can't expect your users to go compile it. Not to pick on Glomie or anything, but he makes a great example because he keeps updating to the development version. Last time he updated, most people left his server until the stable release, because they couldn't connect to his server due to incompatibilities. And once the stable version was released, it wasn't even compatible with his dev version server. Unknown obects were following everyone around (it was their dev version bodies), and hovered way too close to the players to make building and digging possible (because the only thing you could target was your unknown object body). Now he's gone dev version again, and anyone with a stable client can't open their own locked chests due to improvements in locked chest functionality.

My recommendation:
Stable version for servers, and when possible, development version for clients (as it has so many client-side usability fixes).

VanessaE wrote:What, no homedecor+moretrees+plantlife? :-)

Also, it's good to see that you're still around.

Haha, hey V!

I've now added your homedecor mod, so that's something!

Also, someone requested the craft guide, so I've put that on there as well. I tried to add boats, which had also been requested, but unfortunately the server wouldn't run after I did that. Not sure what the deal was, but I didn't feel like investigating.

With the beds mod, if you die, you end up where you last got into bed; if you haven't done that, then you get sent to spawn. Because of this, I've added a few lines to the sethome mod so that players who've slept in beds can still teleport to spawn by typing: /spawn

I wanted monsters, but didn't want too much strain on the server. So, I've just added the mobs mod, and removed all of the mobs except the dirt monster, who now drops cooked rats when killed. Consequently, I've had to tweak the interval at which mobs appear - if you feel like it, check it out and let me know if there are too many/too few of them spawning at night for your liking.

I accidentally killed chat (i.e. the shout priv) with my modded sethome - I had a couple of lines of code in the wrong order - but it's now been fixed. You can chat, /sethome, /home and /spawn now without any errors. I thought people were just ignoring me the last day or so! I've removed mobs temporarily, due to an error where they spawn inside players (gross). Apparently, an update will fix this issue, so I'm going to try that tonight. If you're unable to log on, please be patient - it will be back...

I've updated the server to recent git, so hopefully the mobs will behave properly now.

There's an issue with the craftguide only showing recipes for a couple of the mods now. Any ideas?

Added a couple more monsters with scary sounds and health items dropped when killed - they too only spawn at night, to keep the mob population under control. They look like oerki (sp?) and dungeonmasters, but spawn above ground on sand and desert sand, and don't behave or sound like them!

I also just added the plantlife mod.

thefamilygrog66 wrote:I've updated the server to recent git, so hopefully the mobs will behave properly now.

There's an issue with the craftguide only showing recipes for a couple of the mods now. Any ideas?

I ran into the craft guide issue myself. It's caused by the fact that the craft guide gathers recipes by modifying the recipe registration function, having it additionally add craft recipes to an array. Any plugin that loads BEFORE the function is modified does not have its recipes added to the array, and therefore doesn't have them added to the guide.

There's no good solution for this. It seems the plugins are loaded in mostly alphabetical order, so you could try renaming it "000craft_guide" (zeros, not letters) to make sure it is alphabetically first. I'm not sure how reliable that method is though. The other solution is to add the craft guide to the dependency list of every other plugin. It's not the best idea, but it's guaranteed to work. You could also have it execute as one of the built-in scripts, which load before any plugins.

EDIT: What we need is an API function that returns all registered recipes ....

Wait no claims? How can we protect our houses then traps?

0gb.us wrote:

thefamilygrog66 wrote:I've updated the server to recent git, so hopefully the mobs will behave properly now.

There's an issue with the craftguide only showing recipes for a couple of the mods now. Any ideas?

I ran into the craft guide issue myself. It's caused by the fact that the craft guide gathers recipes by modifying the recipe registration function, having it additionally add craft recipes to an array. Any plugin that loads BEFORE the function is modified does not have its recipes added to the array, and therefore doesn't have them added to the guide.

There's no good solution for this. It seems the plugins are loaded in mostly alphabetical order, so you could try renaming it "000craft_guide" (zeros, not letters) to make sure it is alphabetically first. I'm not sure how reliable that method is though. The other solution is to add the craft guide to the dependency list of every other plugin. It's not the best idea, but it's guaranteed to work. You could also have it execute as one of the built-in scripts, which load before any plugins.

EDIT: What we need is an API function that returns all registered recipes ....

Thanks 0gb - I'll try a couple of your suggestions.

EDIT: changing the name caused the server to crash, but adding it to the depends.txt file for each of the mods worked, except for default, which doesn't have a depends.txt file. When I added one with craft_guide in it to default, it also crashed the server. I guess folks will have to look online for the basic recipes. I'm not sure how to execute it as a built-in script.

Adarqet wrote:Wait no claims? How can we protect our houses then traps?

Griefers are banned, and their actions are rolled back. While I've seen the benefit of protection blocks and claims, and used them quite a bit as well, I've also been really annoyed by them (e.g. overzealous protectors, griefers protecting their messes, etc.). I'm not sure what you mean by "then traps".

thefamilygrog66 wrote:Thanks 0gb - I'll try a couple of your suggestions.

EDIT: changing the name caused the server to crash, but adding it to the depends.txt file for each of the mods worked, except for default, which doesn't have a depends.txt file. When I added one with craft_guide in it to default, it also crashed the server. I guess folks will have to look online for the basic recipes. I'm not sure how to execute it as a built-in script.

Renaming craft_guide probably crashed it due to naming conventions. You'd need to edit the file to add a colon to the beginning of all registered nodes to override it. Maybe not worth the trouble.

My guess is that craft_guide depends on default, which was depending on craft_guide. So both needed the other to load first. Check craft_guide's depends.txt for default, and if it's there, remove it. If I'm right about the craft guide, it only depends on default for recipe ingredients. So it doesn't actually need default to load first (or even at all), it just needs default to be loaded at some point if the recipes are to make any sense.

thefamilygrog66 wrote:

Adarqet wrote:Wait no claims? How can we protect our houses then traps?

Griefers are banned, and their actions are rolled back. While I've seen the benefit of protection blocks and claims, and used them quite a bit as well, I've also been really annoyed by them (e.g. overzealous protectors, griefers protecting their messes, etc.). I'm not sure what you mean by "then traps".

Probably a typo. He probably means "and traps".

thefamilygrog66 wrote:I wanted monsters, but didn't want too much strain on the server. So, I've just added the mobs mod, and removed all of the mobs except the dirt monster, who now drops cooked rats when killed. Consequently, I've had to tweak the interval at which mobs appear - if you feel like it, check it out and let me know if there are too many/too few of them spawning at night for your liking.

lol it was my brother you that had monsters stuck in them my brother sais that i didnt but it was pretty funny and how the chat was broken we thought you were ignoring us

0gb.us wrote:

thefamilygrog66 wrote:Thanks 0gb - I'll try a couple of your suggestions.

EDIT: changing the name caused the server to crash, but adding it to the depends.txt file for each of the mods worked, except for default, which doesn't have a depends.txt file. When I added one with craft_guide in it to default, it also crashed the server. I guess folks will have to look online for the basic recipes. I'm not sure how to execute it as a built-in script.

Renaming craft_guide probably crashed it due to naming conventions. You'd need to edit the file to add a colon to the beginning of all registered nodes to override it. Maybe not worth the trouble.

My guess is that craft_guide depends on default, which was depending on craft_guide. So both needed the other to load first. Check craft_guide's depends.txt for default, and if it's there, remove it. If I'm right about the craft guide, it only depends on default for recipe ingredients. So it doesn't actually need default to load first (or even at all), it just needs default to be loaded at some point if the recipes are to make any sense.

Weird - there are no dependencies listed in the depends.txt file for craft_guide, not even default. Oh well, hopefully somebody will update that mod at some point to be a bit more compatible.

Eminie wrote:lol it was my brother you that had monsters stuck in them my brother sais that i didnt but it was pretty funny and how the chat was broken we thought you were ignoring us

Haha, well at least both of those glitches have been sorted out now. It's a bit of a learning curve, setting up a server, adding and modifying mods, etc., but it's a lot of fun too.

thefamilygrog66 wrote:

0gb.us wrote:

thefamilygrog66 wrote:Thanks 0gb - I'll try a couple of your suggestions.

EDIT: changing the name caused the server to crash, but adding it to the depends.txt file for each of the mods worked, except for default, which doesn't have a depends.txt file. When I added one with craft_guide in it to default, it also crashed the server. I guess folks will have to look online for the basic recipes. I'm not sure how to execute it as a built-in script.

Renaming craft_guide probably crashed it due to naming conventions. You'd need to edit the file to add a colon to the beginning of all registered nodes to override it. Maybe not worth the trouble.

My guess is that craft_guide depends on default, which was depending on craft_guide. So both needed the other to load first. Check craft_guide's depends.txt for default, and if it's there, remove it. If I'm right about the craft guide, it only depends on default for recipe ingredients. So it doesn't actually need default to load first (or even at all), it just needs default to be loaded at some point if the recipes are to make any sense.

Weird - there are no dependencies listed in the depends.txt file for craft_guide, not even default. Oh well, hopefully somebody will update that mod at some point to be a bit more compatible.

Eminie wrote:lol it was my brother you that had monsters stuck in them my brother sais that i didnt but it was pretty funny and how the chat was broken we thought you were ignoring us

Haha, well at least both of those glitches have been sorted out now. It's a bit of a learning curve, setting up a server, adding and modifying mods, etc., but it's a lot of fun too.

can you get the mod for that gray armchair back I need it to make one for me and to put some in my chest for people it be appreciated if you do and sorry again for what my cousin did

Eminie wrote:can you get the mod for that gray armchair back I need it to make one for me and to put some in my chest for people it be appreciated if you do and sorry again for what my cousin did

It's still there - it's part of 3dforniture - not sure why it isn't showing up in the craft guide. Anyway, the recipe is:

W - -
W W -
W W -

W=wooden planks

It looks like your cousin has been griefing again today, so I'm rolling back his actions again - please tell him not to touch other people's stuff, or he will be banned as well. Thanks man.

thefamilygrog66 wrote:

Eminie wrote:can you get the mod for that gray armchair back I need it to make one for me and to put some in my chest for people it be appreciated if you do and sorry again for what my cousin did

It's still there - it's part of 3dforniture - not sure why it isn't showing up in the craft guide. Anyway, the recipe is:

W - -
W W -
W W -

W=wooden planks

It looks like your cousin has been griefing again today, so I'm rolling back his actions again - please tell him not to touch other people's stuff, or he will be banned as well. Thanks man.

fisrt of all if you think im a boy im not! and i will tell my cousin

thefamilygrog66 wrote:Hey folks,

As an experiment, I decided to try setting up a minetest server on a virtual machine via Windows Azure - it's running Ubuntu 12.04 server, in case you were wondering. Anyway, it seems to be working so far. It includes the following mods:

3dforniture
beds
craftguide
homedecor
mobs (only including 3 types of nighttime monsters, who drop health items when killed)
moreblocks
moreores
nolava (prevents placing lava above sea level)
plantlife
sethome (with added /spawn command to teleport to spawn)
woolcraft (note: blue wool requires white + mese crystal fragment, as suggested by Vanessa)

Players start with "initial stuff" items, and also have fast privilege. PVP is turned on, but both parties have to agree to fight - don't be a jerk. That's pretty much it! Don't grief, and have fun.

Address: familygrog.cloudapp.net
Port: 30000

Hopefully it'll be running for awhile, but as I mentioned it's a bit of an experiment, so no guarantees. Please don't get upset if it gets reset, shutdown, etc.

Grog

thefamilygrog66 wrote:

Eminie wrote:can you get the mod for that gray armchair back I need it to make one for me and to put some in my chest for people it be appreciated if you do and sorry again for what my cousin did

It's still there - it's part of 3dforniture - not sure why it isn't showing up in the craft guide. Anyway, the recipe is:

W - -
W W -
W W -

W=wooden planks

It looks like your cousin has been griefing again today, so I'm rolling back his actions again - please tell him not to touch other people's stuff, or he will be banned as well. Thanks man.

sorry what my cousin did and im am a girl and something is wrong with your server

Eminie wrote:sorry what my cousin did and im am a girl and something is wrong with your server

I apologize for that - the server crashed last night, and is now up and running again.

I just added pilzadam's builtin item mod (removes dropped items after awhile, allows players to burn items in lava and allows items to move through flowing water), inventoryplus and skins.

thefamilygrog66 wrote:

Eminie wrote:can you get the mod for that gray armchair back I need it to make one for me and to put some in my chest for people it be appreciated if you do and sorry again for what my cousin did

It's still there - it's part of 3dforniture - not sure why it isn't showing up in the craft guide. Anyway, the recipe is:

W - -
W W -
W W -

W=wooden planks

It looks like your cousin has been griefing again today, so I'm rolling back his actions again - please tell him not to touch other people's stuff, or he will be banned as well. Thanks man.

familygrog ege was messing with my house