FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

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mapgen: archipelago
protection: each island will be an area, can be shared.
Game: combination of mods from all my previous games
Mode: creative or survival, not sure yet
Status: Not up yet (still updating old mods)
Prohibited
Ban: Multiple handles, bots, proxies, data capturing tools (ex. copytolocalmap)
Kick: Idling (> 15m), Using ingame chat for purposes of promotion (other servers, software/political/religious beliefs, etc.)

uhm? "combination of ..... previous games", for a moment there I had hoped to see a combination of maps. Like finding the old Waterworld Spawn city on some remote island.

You'll certainly find the old nodes :-) though copying the old city might be a bit trickier: voxmanips doesn't do facedir and there's an awful lot of it in that city :/

maybe the map merging script, as this adds the chunks of one map.sqlite into an other map.sqlite file directly. The chunk edges would have to be adjusted after merging though.

That would be a problem too, elevation of the water on that map was y=100, the archipelago mapgen uses the default elevation.

Requesting access (if it's okay to not build much but explore instead).
Check out archipelago 0.2.0.

******

The 2 commits that fixed cavegen griefing and dirt ridges were simple, perhaps you could compile your own 0.4.8 stable plus those 2 commits, snce you probably don't want to use 0.4.9dev ... i'll find them for you. Problem is the ice really shows up the griefing problem.

'is_ground_content = false' in node definition to protect a node from cavegen.
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/747bc40840ff13bcf9c7a60b790a6de24f94f946
Disable mud flow with this mapgen flag to avoid dirt ridges.
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/a358c040f2d6d1fe6825121bf8ab57ceb5865cc9
Also see this, LVM gets and sets params 1 and 2 now.
https://github.com/minetest/minetest/commit/bafc4ac6a109525b071e160fa3fe74a344a57c68

mauvebic wrote:That would be a problem too, elevation of the water on that map was y=100, the archipelago mapgen uses the default elevation.

The script moved the "to be inserted" chunks to an ungenerated area of the host map, so "up/down" should also be possible. Leaving the tweaking at the edges/borders to be manually handled.

(please don't consider this as request, rather as discussion of possabilities after I had missread the first post for a second)

May I have access please?

I kind of understand why you chose the whitelist approach. back when I had a server set up it got visited by quite a few "disruptive" players. had close down the server because I was sick of dealing with them.

paramat wrote:Requesting access (if it's okay to not build much but explore instead).
Check out archipelago 0.2.0.

******

The 2 commits that fixed cavegen griefing and dirt ridges were simple, perhaps you could compile your own 0.4.8 stable plus those 2 commits, snce you probably don't want to use 0.4.9dev ... i'll find them for you. Problem is the ice really shows up the griefing problem.

np, will pm temp password when server goes live. I dont mind people exploring ( a lot better than having a bunch of guys just standing around spawn) I'll update archipelago before it goes online.

twoelk wrote:The script moved the "to be inserted" chunks to an ungenerated area of the host map, so "up/down" should also be possible. Leaving the tweaking at the edges/borders to be manually handled.

(please don't consider this as request, rather as discussion of possabilities after I had missread the first post for a second)

I might have the blueprints to some of the buildings, though i'd be spawning them on an island instead of a disc.

Amaz wrote:May I have access please?

Will PM temp password when server goes up :)

CWz wrote:I kind of understand why you chose the whitelist approach. back when I had a server set up it got visited by quite a few "disruptive" players. had close down the server because I was sick of dealing with them.

Wish I could say things have gotten better, now you got people going by 20 different names and people who appear to come from 20 different countries (bots and proxies most likely), and they clog the server up with lag and useless player files. Though I doubt they'll create 20 different forum accounts :p (if they do then I envy how much free time they have).

mauvebic wrote:I might have the blueprints to some of the buildings, though i'd be spawning them on an island instead of a disc.

You trash the old worlds?

mauvebic, preview of archipelago 0.2.1 which trims the ice with 'np_island' noise as well as biome noise, here the new trimming is straight edged but i may add a slight randomness to the edge. Also, the width of the coastal ice is adjustable by parameter, i think this is more interesting, and it is an ultra simple and lightweight 2 line code change. Let me know if you prefer this too.
If you update archipelago to the snow biopmes version you might get snow biomes chopped along chunk edges, but i hope you can somehow keep the world you have already started.

twoelk wrote:You trash the old worlds?

I had a drive die on me in the last year with a lot of valuable stuff, maps wasn't high on that list and I had to make due with less :/

paramat wrote:mauvebic, preview of archipelago 0.2.1 which trims the ice with 'np_island' noise as well as biome noise, here the new trimming is straight edged but i may add a slight randomness to the edge. Also, the width of the coastal ice is adjustable by parameter, i think this is more interesting, and it is an ultra simple and lightweight 2 line code change. Let me know if you prefer this too.
If you update archipelago to the snow biopmes version you might get snow biomes chopped along chunk edges, but i hope you can somehow keep the world you have already started.

Does it use a new/extra noise param or an existing one?

It uses the existing 'np_island' perlin noise which creates the archipelago ridges, and uses the already calaculated variable 'comfac' to trim the ice, so no extra processing time.
There are 2 places in the code where ice is added, the new code is:

Where ICEW = 2.

mauvebic wrote:I had a drive die on me in the last year with a lot of valuable stuff, maps wasn't high on that list and I had to make due with less :/

Ah, so you do trash old worlds though involuntary.

I played around with sfans's copytolocalmap client a little, so I might have some of the WaterWorld map preserved if you are interested. Actually I also have parts of Doge1 as I needed a local copy to let the mapper run over it so that I could study Paramats Islands Mod better. Your custom nodes did give me headaches though ;-)

twoelk wrote:I played around with sfans's copytolocalmap client a little, so I might have some of the WaterWorld map preserved if you are interested. Actually I also have parts of Doge1 as I needed a local copy to let the mapper run over it so that I could study Paramats Islands Mod better. Your custom nodes did give me headaches though ;-)

Regardless of if I keep backups of everything, I don't appreciate people capturing my data without my knowledge and consent, there are laws on data protection both here and in the EU. Im not running The People's Server, it's my equipment and bandwidth that's being wasted when people do anything other than play the game. (Aside, people here don't seem to like Google's data capturing either though Google's upfront about it).

paramat wrote:It uses the existing 'np_island' perlin noise which creates the archipelago ridges, and uses the already calaculated variable 'comfac' to trim the ice, so no extra processing time.
There are 2 places in the code where ice is added, the new code is:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

if y == 1 and snow[ti] and comfac < ICEW + math.random() * 0.4 then
    c_anode = c_ice
else
    c_anode = c_watsour
end

Where ICEW = 2.

That should be fine then, I was just asking to know if there would be any noticeable impact on speed :-)

oops, my bad then.

Thought we had talked about that some time ago on the WaterWorld server and you knew.

Will not record, map, survey or post screenshots of your exclusive worlds then anymore.

Hope you will still allow me to wander your worlds and shelf the wonders to be seen in my mental attic.

I never said anything about screenshots, i just don't like people copying my maps wholesale. I value the uniqueness of my server which is why I dont release my custom mods or textures.

As for 2d maps, I can either generate those myself, or you can run paramat's mod with the same seed on your server (which would spare my server from generating hundreds of chunks that won't be used and need to be changed with mapgen updates, complicating things at my end).

mauvebic wrote:Regardless of if I keep backups of everything, I don't appreciate people capturing my data without my knowledge and consent, there are laws on data protection both here and in the EU. Im not running The People's Server, it's my equipment and bandwidth that's being wasted when people do anything other than play the game.

You're beeing unjust here. The offer of a potential backup was made to you, the server owner in need (=unexpected hardware failure, no fault of yours), and to no one else. We may assume that the data was gathered while twoelk was walking around on your server, taking a look at all those nice buildings - and yes, that's perfectly normal behaviour for players who are good builders themshelves. They look at what others did build. And that special client stores what is sent - nothing more. It is in no way comparable to that bot that was found exploring on Redcrabs server.

Regarding laws, things might get really complicated. The buildings you did built yourshelf on your server are certainly your own. But which rights do you have to buildings built by others? You may certainly display them on the server (that's what they have been built for), and I don't think anybody would mind moving them on to a new map (rather the contrary - if good buildings are preserved, the better!), but for example turning them into a mod and selling them (ok, not that realistic...who'd pay?) is not covered and would mean you'd violate your builder's rights.

Please try to be a bit kinder to good builders :-) Guest<random number> players that take forever to login - and if they eventually manage, grief everything that's not nailed down and kill anything still standing - are available in large quantities, but do you really want those? Your building skills are high, your worlds nice, your ideas at least intresting.

Sokomine wrote:You're beeing unjust here. The offer of a potential backup was made to you, the server owner in need (=unexpected hardware failure, no fault of yours), and to no one else. We may assume that the data was gathered while twoelk was walking around on your server, taking a look at all those nice buildings - and yes, that's perfectly normal behaviour for players who are good builders themshelves. They look at what others did build. And that special client stores what is sent - nothing more. It is in no way comparable to that bot that was found exploring on Redcrabs server.

Regarding laws, things might get really complicated. The buildings you did built yourshelf on your server are certainly your own. But which rights do you have to buildings built by others? You may certainly display them on the server (that's what they have been built for), and I don't think anybody would mind moving them on to a new map (rather the contrary - if good buildings are preserved, the better!), but for example turning them into a mod and selling them (ok, not that realistic...who'd pay?) is not covered and would mean you'd violate your builder's rights.

Please try to be a bit kinder to good builders :-) Guest<random number> players that take forever to login - and if they eventually manage, grief everything that's not nailed down and kill anything still standing - are available in large quantities, but do you really want those? Your building skills are high, your worlds nice, your ideas at least intresting.

I've heard enough about rights to know that good intentions are no excuse to skirt them. It's up to me to make backups and If I don't then it's on me. But just like you can't take a camcorder into a movie theater, I don't want people using map recording tools on my server. In this case I accept that twoelk didn't know I wouldn't like it, and i've updated the OP to prevent future misunderstandings.

As for hardware, it's occurred to me that having a lot of people on the server for purposes other than playing the game did nothing to help forestall the drive failure. It certainly doesn't encourage anyone to add more content if you got a lot of people using more bandwidth to not play. I'm not sure what you're getting at about selling buildings though. But just because something isn't commercial doesn't mean it's a free-for-all, otherwise people would use bus stop shelters as patio furniture.

Keep in mind I don't need players, me and the wife get by on our own. What i'm offering is the chance to play on a server with a unique setup. If they ask me to change the rules or configuration then they've totally missed the point.

Any progress on testing 0.4.9dev? Whereas the dirt ridges and cavegen griefing are not too ugly in normal biomes they look bad on the ice sheets, so i'm keen to find out if you can avoid those. I'm going to test the trimmed ice sheets once more then push my changes within the next 12 hours.

paramat wrote:Any progress on testing 0.4.9dev? Whereas the dirt ridges and cavegen griefing are not too ugly in normal biomes they look bad on the ice sheets, so i'm keen to find out if you can avoid those. I'm going to test the trimmed ice sheets once more then push my changes within the next 12 hours.

Caves could be tricky, I kinda like the underground caves ( above ground not so much :P), but I did change default:ice's definition of is_ground_content to false, and I haven't noticed any anomalies :-) As for 049's performance, it seems to be the same as 048, with the exception of the exit menu dropping FPS by ten (in 048 it rose by as much on the menu), but that's nothing to do with either of us.

Actually disabling the cavegen griefing doesnt disable the caves, you still use the mapgen 'caves' flag, 'ground content = false' in the definition of a node just makes sure that node is not replaced by a cave, it means 'this node is not ground so should not be replaced with cave'.
Here's the 3x4km map i used for testing 0.2.0, the ice is in transition here so ignore that. I think i've managed to balance the land areas of the 3 biomes.

Looks pretty good to me, tundra transitions to forest, and forest transitions to desert :-) I like the larger biomes too.

Indeed the client I used only stores the mapdata it recieves as normal client. It does not request anything beyond that. It does not download mods or mod data such as node ownership or travelnet information.

I never attempted to reverse ingeneer your mods or extract any textures and as such my versions of the maps are pretty useless to play in. They are interestung in other ways though and usefull testbeds as they are "unique"

Hope I didn't annoy you too much

mauvebic wrote:As for hardware, it's occurred to me that having a lot of people on the server for purposes other than playing the game did nothing to help forestall the drive failure. It certainly doesn't encourage anyone to add more content if you got a lot of people using more bandwidth to not play.

Usually, the tool records automaticly while playing. And taking a look at what else has been built *is* important - the new building has to fit in. Of course mapping out huge areas for checking mapgen might be a diffrent matter, if that is what happend.

mauvebic wrote:I'm not sure what you're getting at about selling buildings though. But just because something isn't commercial doesn't mean it's a free-for-all, otherwise people would use bus stop shelters as patio furniture.

I'm just trying to tell you that buildings that where not built by you and which are on your server are not necessarily your property.

paramat wrote:Here's the 3x4km map i used for testing 0.2.0, the ice is in transition here so ignore that. I think i've managed to balance the land areas of the 3 biomes.

The landscape looks very intresting. It seems to have more structure than maps generally have. Perhaps that is due to there beeing more water.

Sokomine wrote:Usually, the tool records automaticly while playing. And taking a look at what else has been built *is* important - the new building has to fit in. Of course mapping out huge areas for checking mapgen might be a diffrent matter, if that is what happend.

Yeah but you have to understand, if I wanted people to have personal copies of my maps, i'd put them up for download. The fact that I don't release them should be some indication that I don't want people copying or distributing them.

Sokomine wrote:I'm just trying to tell you that buildings that where not built by you and which are on your server are not necessarily your property.

What you post on facebook belongs to facebook. If you invite a friend to paint a mural in your home, that friend doesn't suddenly own part of your home. If people want to own their creations they really should play singleplayer. After all I would have no such expectation if I were to build on someone else's server, the admin might decide they need to pass a road where i've built and they'd be within their rights to do it.

Bump ...
Anyone else want access to this server?

Im not terribly surprised that 5K user files translates into less than half a dozen requests :p

In any case i'll set this server up on a tourist basis first. My wife suggested setting up an area/realm/map where people can try out for build rights, I'll probably do that :-)