[Game]/[World] Tutorial [1.8.2]/[2.2.0]

[Evergreen]

I just played through the whole thing, and I still haven't found all the diamonds. This is probably the best map that anyone has ever made for minetest. Great job! :-)

[Wuzzy]

Version 1.2.0 is there! See the attachment.
This is mostly a cosmetic update, the tutorial itself has not changed at all. At least I hope so; if something broke, please report a bug. But it is a BIG cosmetic update.

Day mode:


Night mode:



Changelog:

• Complete overhaul of the looks of Tutorial World
• Redesigned the exterior of the crafting house
• Added some trees on the outside
• Added some kind of stable (it is next to the Good-Bye room and 100% cosmetic)
• Added a couple of other small details everywhere (maybe I post screenshots in the screenshot thread, in the meantime, download it for yourselves. ;-))
• Removed needless .git directory from arrow_signs (were just a few kibibyte, whatever)

I used the following mods for this, all have been stripped down massively:

• [darkages] (WTFPL)
• [cottages] (GPLv3)
• Castles+ [castle] (GPLv3)

If hope the GPLv3 is not a problem for bundling with Minetest. But if it is, I hope I can work out a solution somehow.
In the meanwhile, you can always fall back to 1.1.0, which should be safe.


PS:

+ Spoiler

Yay! Finally someone found a hidden diamond! I already started to think nobody would find any diamond. =)

[oleastre]

I played it yesterday, and I would like to try it with my kids... But as we are French speaking, it would be difficult for them to understand anything.

I can probably add intlib support and prepare a french translation, if it's not already in your todo list.

The only question is how to send you some patch for your tutorial ? do you have a git repository somewhere ?

[deasanta]

Thanks for updated version.

You can read and set minetest settings during the game. If you do not get the desired result at that point in the code find another location earlier in the execution to disable creative mode.

Well done !

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

   elseif(minetest.setting_getbool("creative_mode")) then
      minetest.setting_set("creative_mode", 0)


[twoelk]

/me likes ++

[Minetestforfun]

@oleastre
i agree with your idea, im french and a french translation is a good things, and generally the support of every languages is a good things... But, implementation is difficult, or not ?

[Wuzzy]

Implementation of I18N is rather simple and straightforward, actually. I already used intllib. It is just a lot of work which needs to be done. =)
I just need to clean up my own little code mess, but that’s also nothing to serious.

I also throught of adding I18N support. Intllib is a good idea.
Intllib is only useful for singleplayer, but since the Tutorial is only for singleplayer, it should be fine. :-)
But intllib is also a bit buggy, for example, it does not support 3-letter ISO codes atm. But I IMO intllib is the best solution we have right now, so I take it.

I will work on it later and hopefully I have published a Git repository by the time (sorry I totally forgot Git this time).

But in the long run, I think Minetest really needs a core mechanic to enable mod translation. It’s really a pity that Minetest does not support that now (except indirectly for singleplayer).


@desanta: Oh, can creative mode be toggled on-the-fly? Remember, just because there’s setting_set does not mean that the setting is also immediately active. Minetest’s setting system is a bit of a mess. I need to think about how to handle creative mode. I don’t want to toss it out completely right now, because I am still developing this.

[addi]

isnt it possible to only use the world folder, with minetest_game, and copy all mods into the worldmods folder?

its just a idea

[twoelk]

iirc the idea is to have some default stuff dissabled so unless it works as a worldgame ...

[deasanta]

Oh, can creative mode be toggled on-the-fly?

It seems to be immediate or close to it thus important to know when it executes and how it will affect the mod. Add the line as shown to see the result.

Other thing to consider is using that function also sets the User's preference thus when a user leaves the game it will still be off. You can remember the setting on the start of the game and turn it back to what ever setting the user had.

Everyone who changes these things need to know the power and responsibility of this function. Maybe a easy fix would be if the engine save's the user settings and allow mods to utilize a copy of it so that can be discarded and not affect the user further down the track. This is something that needs it's own discussion though.

Is the mod dependent on the creative mod? I tried removing the creative mod from the games folder but it failed unlike the normal minetest game where I can simply rip it out once the world is built.

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

[quote="Mr. Blobby"]The text Mr. Blobby wrote would go here[/quote]

Again nice work...

[Sokomine]

to place schematics? I don't think so. Aren't for example some trees in some mapgen-mods schematics that are placed on mapgen? Don't know about the entities though. How are mobs spawned in other mods? I wonder if Sokomine's villages place entities, can't remember.

Schematics can only be used to place blocks, not entities. Even metadata like the content of chests has to be treated diffrently. For the purpose of the tutorial world, it's probably easier to just bundle everything together in one world.

If you want to be able to reset the world, just store the positions and informations about all those loose items and all the necessary metadata, and after placing the basic schematic, re-add the entities and metadata.

The ultimate goal is to help Minetest newbies to understand Minetest basics without consulting external documentation all the time. For the tutorial to be effective, I wish this subgame (+ world) to be bundled with Minetest. Simply because you can’t expect newbies to search the forums for that. ;-)

To have some tutorial at all is certainly nice. I'm just not sure what exactly its audience will be. The inscriptions on the signs are extensive - far too long for impatient young players who want to play a new game. With that much emphasis on movement and game concepts, it's far more a demonstration of what the game can do and how some things work in detail. It can even be an inspiration for modders to try new things.

The first version was a bit too boring as far as materials go. The newest version has hugely improved in that regard and looks convincing.

[deasanta]

Sokomine - True most ppl dive right in but eventually a percentage of people do play the tutorial bundled with a game then go "oooo so thats how you do it".

[Dragonop]

@Wuzzy Things that you NEED, to add to this Tutorial:
0- At starting room:
_a-Say how to change the view range (+/- keys); may produce lag; also the ''Enable full viewing range key'' some times the ''tutorial user'' may press it by accident and the fps may droop down.

1- In the room that says how to jump:
_a- Add to the sign that you can also jump 1.5 blocks high while holding down ''sneak'' key.
_b- You cant reach the hidden diamond, you need to get 1.5 blocks closser.

2-Waterfall section:
_a- The sign on the top reads: ''...not be the case of all liuqids'' liuqids

3- Items Tutorial
_a- The entrace to the furnace room is blocked!.

4- Special cubes section:
_a- The ''...or cubes to be precise'' sign is wrong, to be precise is made out of voxels.

5- The goodbye room.
_a- I still cant find the ''Comestibles and eating'' and the ''Damage and Health'' rooms; even flying around and so on.

6- Best tutorial in years, i maybe prefered it more lineal, so i cant get lost but, i dont really care about that;
_a- Great decorations.
_b- Great explanations
_c- High interactivity
_d- I love it,
_e- This must be in the future dev versions!
_f- I am voting for your map now.
_g- Can you PM me and say me where are those rooms?
GOOD TUTORIAL!
+10

[Wuzzy]

@Wuzzy Things that you NEED, to add to this Tutorial:
0- At starting room:
_a-Say how to change the view range (+/- keys); may produce lag; also the ''Enable full viewing range key'' some times the ''tutorial user'' may press it by accident and the fps may droop down.

Rejected. Technical issues and troubleshooting help does not belong into a tutorial.
It would be generally better if Minetest ships with sane default settings and improved controls. It would be also better if Minetest disables ALL those debug keys in release builds. Why the hell would any player want to disable camera updates? (for example)

_a- Add to the sign that you can also jump 1.5 blocks high while holding down ''sneak'' key.

o_O That’s actually true. Now I have learned something!
I will add this to the sneak section instead. One short extra-sign might do it.
It does not look like it were part of the sneak glitch, so it might be fine.

_b- You cant reach the hidden diamond, you need to get 1.5 blocks closser.

Incorrect. First:

+ Spoiler

There is not only one hidden diamond.

Second: I guarantee you can reach the hidden diamond

+ Spoiler

s

.


3- Items Tutorial

_a- The entrace to the furnace room is blocked!.

Ha! I KNEW that my update would break something. Thanks for reporting.


The other comments: Yeah, I’ll fix that, too.
PM has been sent.


I am still working on the I18N update. Release may still take a while.

[Dragonop]

@Wuzzy, Ohhh, now i see how to reach the diamond

+ Spoiler

Apples

I also get 6 diamonds with that one :D

[Evergreen]

I managed to find 7 diamonds. They are very well hidden.

[Wuzzy]

To have some tutorial at all is certainly nice. I'm just not sure what exactly its audience will be. The inscriptions on the signs are extensive - far too long for impatient young players who want to play a new game. With that much emphasis on movement and game concepts, it's far more a demonstration of what the game can do and how some things work in detail. It can even be an inspiration for modders to try new things.

Well, its partly a demonstration, yes. But this is actually a side-effect of my goal to create a more-or-less comprehensive tutorial. I did not intend to showcase Minetest. But in a sense, all tutorials are somehow destined to also showcase a game.

I can understand your concern of inpatient folks. I had that thought, too. But on the other hand, I want the tutorial to be comprehensive. If you think about it, you’ll realize that Minetest is rather complex. What seems obvious to me now was not at all obvious back when I was completely new to Minetest. And a complex game demands extensive tutorials in my opinion. So I have to expect a minimum motivation. If someone is too impatient for the tutorial, then probably Minetest might not be the correct game either.

On the other hand I have to agree that the texts are sometimes really long. I can try to shorten the texts in a way that they say the same stuff but with less words. Or maybe I strip down the overly technical stuff or move it to the optional Good-Bye room.
Alternatively, I can try to split longer texts into multiple signs or factoids, so the students don’t get overwhelmed with a wall of text. I am not sure how exactly this would work out. Another idea I had was to extend the sign formspecs so they can also include some illustrations. This could prove useful for the crafting section and will also go easier on the eye, I hope.

But most importantly: It has yet to be seen how the tutorial will actually work. The actual audience is complete Minetest newbies, of course. I’ve got a lot of feedback in this thread, but I never have gotten feedback from actual Minetest newbies yet. Feedback from those would be invaluable for the Tutorial, but I can’t expect such feedback until the Tutorial is official part of Minetest. But don’t get me wrong: The feedback of you all was still pretty useful.



I hope I can make a big release today. I hope I can finally finish that I18N thing, along with some other features and bugfixes.

[Wuzzy]

What time is it?
Release time!
For version 1.3.0.

Changelog:

• Tutorial is now fully translatable
• Partial German translation (more strings will follow)
• Added golden cup as a symbolic reward / reminder for finishing the tutorial (appears in Good-Bye Room)
• Make entry into comestibles room more visible
• Removed a superflous directory in subgame
• Player can not walk on decorative shields anymore
• Wooden table now makes a wooden sound
• Fix blocked access to smelting room
• Fix wrong number of gold ingots on signs
• + Spoiler

  A diamond cup is awarded for collecting all hidden diamonds

I also finally uploaded a Git repository. The recordings start somewhere between 1.2.0 and 1.3.0.
Here is the project page:
http://repo.or.cz/w/minetest_tutorial_subgame.git
This repository is only for the subgame. The world does not have a repository.

About the new translation support: The tutorial uses intllib for translation.

How to translate: Download the tutorial (Git or Zip), then look into the mod directories. In each mod directory, you will find a “locale” directory. Copy the file “template.txt”. Call the copy “II.txt”, where “II” is replaced by the ISO 639-1 code of your language. You’ll find a list on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ISO_639-1_codes. Now you can edit the file. To translate, simply write an equals sign at the end of each line, followed by your translation. Line breaks are represented by “/n”. Be careful not to change the original string, otherwise your translation won’t work. If you are finished or have finished a substantial part of a translation, post here or write me a PM. It is enough to send me your files. There is no need to use Git. (But it is not prohibited, either.)

If you can find any missing strings, please report a bug here.

In case your language does not have an ISO 639-1 code, please complain in the intllib thread for not supporting ISO 639-2 codes. (ISO 639-2 has far more languages than ISO 639-1.)


EDIT:
Replies!

isnt it possible to only use the world folder, with minetest_game, and copy all mods into the worldmods folder?

its just a idea

Ugh, no. That’s not possible. The world folder is only for world data.


About all the discussion on schematics: I am not sure if I really should do this. It could take quite some work to do it right. I would also say that it’s more Minetest’s job to handle worlds.
Additionally, if the tutorial gets added to Minetest, integration work on the core should still be made. Just dropping the tutorial data in the Minetest distribution might work, but Minetest deserves better. Personally, I think, my part of the work is done. Sure, I can always make some small improvement here and there, but the tutorial is now basically finished IMO.

EDIT2:
About that creative problem: Sorry, I can not reproduce it. I can take out the creative mode without any problems. Do you still experience the problem with the current version?

[srifqi]

Woah! Nice! I shall add Indonesian language ASAP.

[Calinou]

• fr.txt of castle
• fr.txt of creative
• fr.txt of default
• fr.txt of supplemental
• fr.txt of tutorial (incomplete but works)

License: CC0 1.0

It would be a good idea to make movement speed faster (or add a /speed command), it gets tedious to move around due to the slow movement speed.

What about using the textures new (grass, cobblestone, dirt, …) found in latest minetest_game Git?

[addi]

addi wrote:isnt it possible to only use the world folder, with minetest_game, and copy all mods into the worldmods folder?

its just a idea


Ugh, no. That’s not possible. The world folder is only for world data.

no thats wrong, mods stored in /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/ will override the mods of the selected game.

so you can just use one wold that must be downloaded, and installed, wich is more easier than installing a game or a game + world

[rubenwardy]

Addi is correct.

[Sokomine]

Since Wuzzy asked in a PN for that: I am re-liscensing that part/extract of my cottages mod which is currently used in this tutorial world as GPLv2 so that it can be included/bundled with Minetest. The main/complete mod will stay GPLv3.
The textures are not created by myshelf. That ought to pose no problem - the minimal wood texture is part of the minimal default game, which is already bundled with Minetest; the textures from darkage are AFAIK WTFPL, and VanessaE granted permission for those textures done by her to be used under GPLv2 as well.

[gamergardencat]

I agree with Addi. This can readily be distributed by keeping all the mods in the /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/. Carbone et al. could take advantage of the world and mods that comes with it.

[Wuzzy]

It would be a good idea to make movement speed faster (or add a /speed command), it gets tedious to move around due to the slow movement speed.

Rejected. This would break a few sections, which have been carefully optimized for the default walking speed. If I change the walking speed, I would have to re-optimize all that, and I am not willing to do that.

But I do have had an idea to allow to teleport to different sections, which would make a few things easier.

What about using the textures new (grass, cobblestone, dirt, …) found in latest minetest_game Git?

Rejected. The difference is not important enough to me. Also, this makes Tutorial World further look different from the default game, which is good. If Tutorial World looks too similar to minetest_game, this could be confusing.

no thats wrong, mods stored in /worlds/<someword>/worldmods/ will override the mods of the selected game.

OK, thanks. This is quite surprising. Whatever. But I see another technical problem with this idea: If I distribute all neccessary mods in the world, you still have to specify a subgame to play the world in. We can’t just require the user to pick a subgame, that would be ridiciulous. The user is about to learn Minetest and therefore it is unfair to expect to handle subgames correctly at this moment. And IMO this all just sounds like pointless refactoring to me; without any real benefit? My idea is that Minetest should just treat the tutorial subgame and Tutorial World as special cases and abstract the logic away from the user.


Okay, I can now also announce that all potential license problems have been dealt with. Sokomine already has publicly allowed me to GPLv2 for my fork and I got a PM from Dan Dancombe which allows me to distribute the Cottages mod under WTFPL. Now all licenses of the tutorial are GPLv2-compatible again.


Lastly, I thankfully take Calinou’s French translation. I am currently working on the German translation; I will include German in the next release. I will hope to include the unfinished French translation as well, after some testing.

[addi]

OK, thanks. This is quite surprising. Whatever. But I see another technical problem with this idea: If I distribute all neccessary mods in the world, you still have to specify a subgame to play the world in. We can’t just require the user to pick a subgame, that would be ridiciulous. The user is about to learn Minetest and therefore it is unfair to expect to handle subgames correctly at this moment. And IMO this all just sounds like pointless refactoring to me; without any real benefit? My idea is that Minetest should just treat the tutorial subgame and Tutorial World as special cases and abstract the logic away from the user.

What about minetest_game? or minimal it comes bundled wich each build so its the easiest, to base on it

[Wuzzy]

No, certainly not. I already have heavily modified the default mods and throwing in minetest_game just adds a lot of unneccessary cruft and forces Minetest to load a lot of unneeded data. I am not even sure if it would even work without breaking anything. And minimal would be pointless, too, it also just adds cruft, from my experience the minimal subgame also breaks formspecs.

Again, I have to ask what would be the benefit of shoehorning everything into that worldmods/ folder. It just complicates everything.
If I understood correctly, while worlds can have world mods, there can’t be completely self-sufficient worlds which bundle an entire subgame with them, right?

TL;DR: I am probably not changing the technical architecture of this tutorial, because it is pointless in my opinion.

[addi]

i dont see, what you problem is, it does not complicate it, it makes it much easier!

for all wich are intrested, in attachment is the 1.3 version of the world including all required mods in worldmods.

to install just download the zip and copy its content into worlds/ directory, start minetest, select "Tutorial World" and press play. thats all :-)

[Evergreen]

i dont see, what you problem is, it does not complicate it, it makes it much easier!

for all wich are intrested, in attachment is the 1.3 version of the world including all required mods in worldmods.

to install just download the zip and copy its content into worlds/ directory, start minetest, select "Tutorial World" and press play. thats all :-)

I think Wuzzy's point is that adding a seperate game makes it integrate much more nicely with minetest. And ideally, the new user won't have to install it themselves if it gets added to default minetest.

[MaxPower]

Still think the world should be generated automatically rather than expecting the user to copy it in the game folder, that way the player could create a new Tutorial game from fresh, or carry on an already started one