FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

I think that a split renderer would be great, a legacy one for old/underpowered machines, and a new one for modern machines.

IMO the new one should focus on looking great, that way MT can finally have good graphics (dynamic shadows, shaders galore, reflections, etc)

Of corse settings need to be togglable...

Actually RealBadAngel said to split the shaders and non-shaders renderers. It was to preserve some tangent space feature.
EDIT: I got it wrong. Also, will someone PLEASE fix that red tint problem? I want shaders.

To be clear, the vertextangents commit was tested by 1 person at the time and seemed to have very little effect on no-shader performance, that's why it was merged. Only later with further testing did 2 others discover the no-shader FPS drop of 25%. Hopefully RBA will be able to fix this.

Strange. First I hear of "breaking working shit in the name of eye candy" and now this.

I am amazed by the negative talk about RBAs work. He has put a lot of time and effort into minetest. Do people really think he is evil and trying to destroy the game?

I don't know what actually happened but I am quite sure that he deserves a lot of respect for the great work he has done. If a mistake was made then give him time to work it out.

Don wrote:Do people really think he is evil and trying to destroy the game?

Criticising someone isn't calling them "evil".

I am personally not saying RBA is "evil" on the contrary, I think he does it out of goodness. He's a talented coder and can do wonders with Minetest's graphical features. What I complain about is that he has a record of breaking things on the low end to push high-end features ("eye candy"), and then ignoring users and basically telling them "buy a better machine/graphics card/whatever or GTFO".

My machine is 6 years old and still runs as if it were new. Of course my graphics card can't cope with the latest graphics gimmicks, but that's no excuse to break working stuff.

I wasn't referring to the constructive criticism. I have seen a number of comments about this. Some even going as far as suggesting RBA put a virus in the code.

Actually, we were just talking about THAT commit. And no hate for RBA, but we forgot to write anything in appreciation of his other work. We suck. Particularly me, who got pissed off about the fps drop and termed it a "virus". Although I wrote that it was an exaggeration on my part.

EDIT: Blame whoever told whoever told whoever told whoever told rubenwardy about this for the negative attitude I think.

I got this info from irc and github issues. I was using blame as a specific git terminology, as in the fps drop from a commit by rba that added tangent space vertices or whatever, rather than a social thing. I said "Basically" as there are other factors in play.

I still get 30-60fps so doesn't effect me that much. I like most of rbas work, particularly with the minimap and water shaders. I'm not so keen about normalmaps on the 16x16 textures, as I think they aren't subtle enough. Maybe at higher res they'll look better. However, I don't like rbas attitude of "if it works then who cares how it's made", as that could potentially cause hard to maintain and buggy code

I don't think that the fps drop from the commit is from bad code, but rather the fact the more data needs to be passed around now, which older machines won't like.

Reading IRC, it seems to me the opposite is true. RBA is apparently the only one who knows what this game needs and everyone just fights him 100% of the way.

The main reason I said that is because I get tired of people attacking people instead of issues. RBA is not the only one who gets personally attacked. If someone does something that you disagree with then talk about it and see if there can be a solution. By attacking the person instead of the issue you push people away and eventually they will get tired of it and leave the community. Imagine how minetest would advance without RBA. Imagine the mapgen if paramat left. Not only the core team but the mod devs as well.

Ad hominems are a logical fallacy. If we criticize the topic/issue we can come up with solutions. The developers will be more willing to address issues when they are not being insulted. Theoretically the development would advance faster and the code would have less errors since the devs would care more.

And always remember that nobody is getting anything from working on minetest, all of them are volunteers and they code because they want, they aren't in the obligation to work in Minetest.
+1 for Don, that explained it perfectly.

+100
We get too heated up about issues sometimes. It's about time idiots like me remember that.

ABJ wrote:+100
We get too heated up about issues sometimes. It's about time idiots like me remember that.

You are not an idiot for making a mistake. Everyone makes mistakes. Like I said before we should address the issue instead of the person even if it is about yourself.

(Thank you for telling me I am not an idiot :))), but I believe I did address the issue.

ABJ wrote:We get too heated up about issues sometimes.

)
+100 for your good post anyway.

@Don I agree completely.

We have just merged a commit by RBA that means vertextangents are only used if shaders are enabled.
With shaders disabled the former 21% drop in FPS is now eliminated.

Don wrote:I am amazed by the negative talk about RBAs work. He has put a lot of time and effort into minetest. Do people really think he is evil and trying to destroy the game?

I don't know what actually happened but I am quite sure that he deserves a lot of respect for the great work he has done. If a mistake was made then give him time to work it out.

+1

good morning.
I have a problem:
two years ago I started to play minetes in version 0.4.6 and meanwhile out new versions.
I would spend my world and built to version 0.4.14 or 0.4.13.
I have already asked in another forum and I have suggested passing the folder / worlds of the old version to the folder / worlds of the new version. I tried that and it did not work.
seriously immensely I appreciate your help for this as the most recent versions have new and better blocks. especially 0.4.14.
first of all, Thanks.
sorry if some words are misspelled. I only speak Spanish and I'm using google translator.
I appreciate your fast response.

alucard112 wrote:good morning.
I have a problem:
two years ago I started to play minetes in version 0.4.6 and meanwhile out new versions.
I would spend my world and built to version 0.4.14 or 0.4.13.
I have already asked in another forum and I have suggested passing the folder / worlds of the old version to the folder / worlds of the new version. I tried that and it did not work.
seriously immensely I appreciate your help for this as the most recent versions have new and better blocks. especially 0.4.14.
first of all, Thanks.
sorry if some words are misspelled. I only speak Spanish and I'm using google translator.
I appreciate your fast response.

Are there any error message? What kind of problem that occurs? Can you take some screenshots? Please ask in Bugs and Problems forum. Also, you can ask in Spanish forum.

srifqi wrote:

alucard112 wrote:good morning.
I have a problem:
two years ago I started to play minetes in version 0.4.6 and meanwhile out new versions.
I would spend my world and built to version 0.4.14 or 0.4.13.
I have already asked in another forum and I have suggested passing the folder / worlds of the old version to the folder / worlds of the new version. I tried that and it did not work.
seriously immensely I appreciate your help for this as the most recent versions have new and better blocks. especially 0.4.14.
first of all, Thanks.
sorry if some words are misspelled. I only speak Spanish and I'm using google translator.
I appreciate your fast response.

Are there any error message? What kind of problem that occurs? Can you take some screenshots? Please ask in Bugs and Problems forum. Also, you can ask in Spanish forum.

I answered him in the Spanish Forum...
Exactly what happen?
Minetest don't identify the world or don't show it in the worlds list?

philipbenr wrote:

Don wrote:I am amazed by the negative talk about RBAs work. He has put a lot of time and effort into minetest. Do people really think he is evil and trying to destroy the game?

I don't know what actually happened but I am quite sure that he deserves a lot of respect for the great work he has done. If a mistake was made then give him time to work it out.

+1

RBA is dead and gone, but before that, he has resolved the cause of our whining.