FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 06:27**

I've recently discovered and been toying with Minetest. Some criticisms based on my initial experience:

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 08:35**

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- Default windowed aspect ratio is 4:3.
It would be nice to see Minetest default to 16:9 since that is the most common format.

I've made a pull request for that, it was never merged for an unknown reason.

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- No drag-divide function in inventory.
Crafting takes longer than needed because each item currently needs to be placed individually into cells. And there is no double-click to regather the items into a stack.

Patches welcome... :)

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- No (vanilla) custom skin implementation.
Understandably, a FOSS project can't be expected to have a centralized solution and so would it be reasonable for custom player skins to be delivered from the client side?

It is tricky (but not impossible) to send skins directly from the client to the server, without requiring port forwarding.

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- No graphics options in pause menu.

There was a pull request on the works for that, it was also not merged.

AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- Walking acceleration/deceleration feels RIGID (jumping too).
I'm not sure what it is about jumping but either the hang time or weightiness are way off.

This is intended; this game is not an ice rink.

Posted: **Sun Aug 02, 2015 13:43**

Is it normal for all these commits to never get merged?

Patches welcome... :)

I only know some Python and Bash. I am far from a place where I could contribute :(

EDIT: http://dev.minetest.net/TODO#Formspec <-- somebody is already looking to add a sort of double-click inventory management feature. I would love to help, really but I'm new on github and to programming in general.

And is the aspect ratio issue as simple as changing this?:

params.WindowSize = core::dimension2d<u32>(640, 480);

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 08:59**

AnxiousInfusion wrote:And is the aspect ratio issue as simple as changing this?:

params.WindowSize = core::dimension2d<u32>(640, 480);

It's even simpler: you just have to change a default setting, screenW, from 800 to 1024.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:40**

For more on changing the default window size, see this topic. Also, you can find all available configuration options in minetest.conf.example

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 13:32**

AnxiousInfusion wrote:I've recently discovered and been toying with Minetest. Some criticisms based on my initial experience
- No drag-divide function in inventory.
Crafting takes longer than needed because each item currently needs to be placed individually into cells. And there is no double-click to regather the items into a stack.
[/list]

Right clicking handles bulk division for me. Though I would love to shift-click items between inventories.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 15:35**

Calinou wrote:
AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- No (vanilla) custom skin implementation.
Understandably, a FOSS project can't be expected to have a centralized solution and so would it be reasonable for custom player skins to be delivered from the client side?

It is tricky (but not impossible) to send skins directly from the client to the server, without requiring port forwarding.

It's literally just sending a few hundred bytes to the server, nothing tricky about that.

Posted: **Mon Aug 03, 2015 20:42**

sfan5 wrote:
Calinou wrote:
AnxiousInfusion wrote:
- No (vanilla) custom skin implementation.
Understandably, a FOSS project can't be expected to have a centralized solution and so would it be reasonable for custom player skins to be delivered from the client side?

It is tricky (but not impossible) to send skins directly from the client to the server, without requiring port forwarding.

It's literally just sending a few hundred bytes to the server, nothing tricky about that.

Exactly.

The idea is that, to avoid dependence on a centralized skin service, when you first connect to a server your client could upload a copy of your skin (if it is not default). And clients that connect to it would also retrieve player skins from it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2015 10:48**

when you first connect to a server your client could upload a copy of your skin (if it is not default). And clients that connect to it would also retrieve player skins from it

Or just give the server the URL and let the clients download it from an external server.

If someone wants a skin, he can upload it to imgur or similar and paste the url in the client.

This would ease the load/storage in the server and also make it more decentralized, since there could be skins in a variety of image hosting servers. Perhaps just have certain size limits imposed by the clients so that someone doesn't start forcing everyone to download a 5MB file.

Another interesting approach is using something like character_creator: viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13138

Or maybe even a combination of both.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2015 13:21**

FreeLikeGNU wrote:
AnxiousInfusion wrote:I've recently discovered and been toying with Minetest. Some criticisms based on my initial experience
- No drag-divide function in inventory.
Crafting takes longer than needed because each item currently needs to be placed individually into cells. And there is no double-click to regather the items into a stack.
[/list]

Right clicking handles bulk division for me. Though I would love to shift-click items between inventories.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2015 14:28**

Asking clients to just download images from a url is bad, see images in emails - the URL could gather IPs and times etc.

I disagree with the client sending images to the server, avatars should be moderated. However, there could be an external system, like the Mt skins database, which the client can choose from. And the player could upload to, anyway.

Or, a moderator could have to approve an image before it's visible to other players.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2015 17:16**

rubenwardy wrote:I disagree with the client sending images to the server, avatars should be moderated. However, there could be an external system, like the Mt skins database, which the client can choose from. And the player could upload to, anyway.

Or, a moderator could have to approve an image before it's visible to other players.

I disagree with moderation of skins. A simple allow/deny custom skins option in the server config is all that's needed. Minetest is a game which lets people create a 3D representation of anything they can imagine, so it's hopelessly optimistic to think that you can censor all forms of expression and make the game 100% provably "family friendly" (by primitive 21st century human standards). It's a complete waste of valuable developer time to chase after wild geese like that.

Posted: **Fri Sep 11, 2015 17:28**

If you disagree, then don't moderate your skins. Server owners like VanessaE want an appropriate playing server, without pornography.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 00:48**

rubenwardy wrote:If you disagree, then don't moderate your skins. Server owners like VanessaE want an appropriate playing server, without pornography.

I'm saying that's simply impossible.
There exists no algorithm (yet) which can determine whether an arbitrary arrangement of voxels is pornography or not. If anything, skins are infinitely easier to manually moderate (check skins folder on the server every day) than player constructions or signs. It is futile to try and eliminate all ways for players to break social taboos, because you'd have to make the game entirely non-interactive.
It's really up to the devs, but I feel that this would just be a completely pointless waste of time spent pretending to cater to the same group of players who made Minecraft multiplayer/forums insufferable - little kids.

Then again, personally I think the entire skins system should be extremely low priority. I'd rather see a proper API for mods to add clothing/armour to the player, then people can customise their appearance using in-game tools.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 09:33**

What I don't like about players being able to set up their own skins is inconsistency. Some players might use skins to make them hard to see, giving them an advantage in PvP.

What about just letting players choose hair, shirt, pants color in a preset color palette? This way, you can easily identify players, but everything remains consistent (and hopefully easy to see).

Moreover, it's already technically doable. :)

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:20**

Calinou wrote:What I don't like about players being able to set up their own skins is inconsistency. Some players might use skins to make them hard to see, giving them an advantage in PvP.

also another bad thing about players being able to set thier own skins would be some players might use nude skins. no one should have to see nudity in minetest.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 13:11**

Yeah, nudity is annoying. Also, giant penis-shaped buildings. Those really annoy me. Players should either have a permanent construction permit or need to have a mod watching over them at all time before placing any node.

Also, players placing signs should only be allowed to use words that are within a whitelist of committee-approved words, to prevent them for using swear words, or words referring to nudity (like "penis", or "vagina" or "buttcheek"). And a mod should approve each sign's text before it can be read by other players, just in case some players try to be smart and put the word "pen" next to the word "is".

EDIT : For clarification, some content in this post may or may not be a subtle satire demonstrating the pointlessness of censoring in minetest. But I get why people get confused : there's a lot of people on forums who post very extreme opinions. I'm not even sure why those are allowed on the internet.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 13:30**

PoignardAzur wrote:Yeah, nudity is annoying. Also, giant penis-shaped buildings. Those really annoy me. Players should either have a permanent construction permit or need to have a mod watching over them at all time before placing any node.

Also, players placing signs should only be allowed to use words that are within a whitelist of committee-approved words, to prevent them for using swear words, or words referring to nudity (like "penis", or "vagina" or "buttcheek"). And a mod should approve each sign's text before it can be read by other players, just in case some players try to be smart and put the word "pen" next to the word "is".

Swear filters suffer from the "Scunthorpe Problem" (warning: strong language): https://github.com/minimaxir/big-list-o ... s.txt#L563

Moreover, they are easy to bypass.

I'm against swear filters to any kind due to that.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 14:51**

Calinou wrote:What about just letting players choose hair, shirt, pants color in a preset color palette? This way, you can easily identify players, but everything remains consistent (and hopefully easy to see).

That would already be good if it's included in the game.

As an additional bonus, skins could be randomized by default so that you will hardly see 2 characters that are the same even if the players didn't know/care to change their skin.

Calinou wrote:Moreover, it's already technically doable. :)

Not only doable, but already done in character_creator viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13138

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 16:19**

PoignardAzur wrote:nudity is annoying. Also, giant penis-shaped buildings. Those really annoy me. Players should either have a permanent construction permit or need to have a mod watching over them at all time before placing any node.

Also, players placing signs should only be allowed to use words that are within a whitelist of committee-approved words, to prevent them for using swear words [...]

And what annoys me is the puritanical Ned Flanders attitudes like that taking offense so sensitively when they're facing a harmless spontaneity which they're not accustomed.

This is the same sliding way of thinking that want to restrict the freedom on Internet, put plenty of cops and cameras on the public places, and dictate the political correctness to the world.

You should spend your efforts on productivity instead of being obsessed on over-monitoring.

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 16:26**

One good "swear filter" would be an eliza type one where the server would respond back with "and why do you feel this way Guest5321?"

Posted: **Sat Sep 12, 2015 18:23**

Please, PLEASE, no predefined skins/skin components! Its very bad idea!

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2015 01:18**

Well, like anything in Minetest or Minetest Game it would have to be moddable.

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2015 09:54**

nomohakon wrote:Please, PLEASE, no predefined skins/skin components! Its very bad idea!

Why? You are not giving any argument.

I would rather have this than continue with every single character being the same with no sign of individuality to tell them apart.

If what you are thinking is "because custom skins are better", then I don't think this would be incompatible with it (someone could mod it to have an additional button to use a custom skin as an option instead of basing it off components).
There could also be an option so that those who don't want to see custom skins don't see them and fall back to a random composition. That way there would be no need for moderation, the servers who want this can disable custom skins by default but people who don't mind could enable it.

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:07**

I agree with the idea of a default skin from random components. Instead of true random, though, base it on a hash of the player's name, like a Gravatar. Voilá, cross-server recognizability!

Posted: **Sun Sep 13, 2015 11:21**

I want to use MY skin as I please.

Posted: **Thu Sep 17, 2015 23:21**

ArguablySane wrote:I disagree with moderation of skins. A simple allow/deny custom skins option in the server config is all that's needed. Minetest is a game which lets people create a 3D representation of anything they can imagine, so it's hopelessly optimistic to think that you can censor all forms of expression and make the game 100% provably "family friendly" (by primitive 21st century human standards). It's a complete waste of valuable developer time to chase after wild geese like that.

If we want full censorship we need only look at what happened to Nintendo and online gaming with restrictive and unintuitive features as "Friend Codes". And even then, people still find clever ways to bypass the filters and censorship.

ArguablySane wrote:Then again, personally I think the entire skins system should be extremely low priority. I'd rather see a proper API for mods to add clothing/armour to the player, then people can customise their appearance using in-game tools.

Ah, the Lego approach. At least it would keep players adhering to in-world stylization. But I can't say that I would support anything other than complete player freedom unless of course we aim to make Minetest COPPA certified http://www.kidsafeseal.com/certifiedproducts.html

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