FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

It might not be a bad idea to have a Teen/Adult forum(s) that prompt for your year and month of birth, and if you are old enough allows you to see mods/content that are for older players. Rather than having all the arguments over what is and isn't appropriate, just separate the content so it doesn't offend.

Aww the mod is cute ... and fairly harmless.
Apparently extreme violence in mods is considered suitable for children but a person in beautiful clothes no more revealing than beachwear is not =/

paramat wrote:Apparently extreme violence in mods is considered suitable for children but a person in beautiful clothes no more revealing than beachwear is not =/

This.

No, extreme violence is not suitable for children, and the mod was not going to just be cute girls in bikinis, it was going to EXOTIC DANCERS. You know, like what you'd see at a STRIP CLUB.

Of corse he edited the post after something was said and I looked like a jerk, but that's life.

I honestly think that MT forums should stay free of adult content, as so far this has been a clean forums free of non family friendly things (I do not consider chartoonish killing to be "EXTREME VIOLANCE!!!"

It is the parent's job to decide what content is right for their kids.

While I do think we should strive as a community to be inclusive and make our content as easily enjoyable to people of many walks of life, I think it is inevitable that many of us will find some of the content on this forum objectionable.

I do not think there should be a hard age restriction because of differences in cultural definitions of what an adult is. But having a forum set aside for adult content is one possible solution to the contention, should it continue.

I sincerely hope it does not. Both sides are at fault here. We are all Minetest players.

we should have some sort of parental controls on the user settings. and if the age is under 18. when registering. the user should have to have their parent/guardian choose what type of content is suitable.

stormchaser3000 wrote:we should have some sort of parental controls on the user settings. and if the age is under 18. when registering. the user should have to have their parent/guardian choose what type of content is suitable.

Nah, that just encourages people to lie about their age when they register.

BrandonReese wrote:

stormchaser3000 wrote:we should have some sort of parental controls on the user settings. and if the age is under 18. when registering. the user should have to have their parent/guardian choose what type of content is suitable.

Nah, that just encourages people to lie about their age when they register.

I have never seen any age limit (that didn't involve a credit card) actually keep even moderately intelligent children out... and even that won't stop some children. It makes me laugh when I ask my young relatives if their parents know what they're looking at on the Web, and they tell me with perfect candor about things that make my hair curl and they wouldn't dare tell their parents about.

On the other hand, these age games give the site owners plausible deniability.

Edit: Ok, off-topic -- who remembers the stripper bar in the original Everquest game?

> I do not consider chartoonish killing to be "EXTREME VIOLANCE!!!

That's the argument often used, that it's cartoonish violence so harmless, well then, cartoonish low-res pixelated sexy underwear is also harmless.
This is an example of how some coutries, especially in Europe (here in the UK) and USA are very uptight about anything sexual when children are exposed to far worse things.
The fact is that the countries that shield children and teenagers from sexual matters for as long as possible (UK) also have the highest rates of unplanned and young-teenage pregnancies, and the most sexual ignorance and irresponsibility later in life. It often arises from right-wing politics and extremist Christianity.

paramat wrote:> I do not consider chartoonish killing to be "EXTREME VIOLANCE!!!

That's the argument often used, that it's cartoonish violence so harmless, well then, cartoonish low-res pixelated sexy underwear is also harmless.
This is an example of how some coutries, especially in Europe (here in the UK) and USA are very uptight about anything sexual when children are exposed to far worse things.
The fact is that the countries that shield children and teenagers from sexual matters for as long as possible (UK) also have the highest rates of unplanned and young-teenage pregnancies, and the most sexual ignorance and irresponsibility later in life. It often arises from right-wing politics and extremist Christianity.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

BrandonReese wrote:

stormchaser3000 wrote:we should have some sort of parental controls on the user settings. and if the age is under 18. when registering. the user should have to have their parent/guardian choose what type of content is suitable.

Nah, that just encourages people to lie about their age when they register.

+1.

Being a parent myself you can't keep kids shielded from things 24/7 (you can try your best) but your kids' peers will undo that for you :) I could go on and on.....Who decides what is and isn't appropriate for the forum? Cultural differences, ideas, and values are different for just about everyone.

Lets just ask a moderator to add a poll asking for this on the op and we could solve this really quickly.

duane wrote:Edit: Ok, off-topic -- who remembers the stripper bar in the original Everquest game?

Not to mention the legendary Duke Nukem 3D...

Minetest is extremely soft and moderated compared to most of AAA games, ethically speaking... and you're worrying about some good-natured pixelish glamor ? In my country (France), kids of 13 years old have naked male/female and genitals illustrated in books of life science at school.

Oh yeah? What about pixelated low res nudity? Why not just have low res pixelated porn while your at it? By chartoonish, I didn't say graphic blood and guts at a lower resolution. What I ment by what I said was that funny, good natured Tom and Jerry style violance isnt bad at all.

There is a difference between nudity and sexuality, as well as a difference in age when compared to...say....some of the people on this forum.....

This is all just my (apparently not important, since no body seems to care that they dont have everyone on their side) opinion.

> pixelated low res nudity? Why not just have low res pixelated porn

I agree with you that wouldn't be acceptable.
However photos of people in bikinis and sexy underwear are everywhere in society and considered acceptable for young eyes, as long as there is no nudity.
Also i agree the mod topic should not be presented in an 18+ way or mention 18+ themes, it should be discrete.

Now i guess i should complain the busts are not voxelish enough :D

hm... i think it is also a matter of mod presentation.

the technic mod has nclear reactors. everyone builds them and nobody argues that it is bad for the environment.
when you break the reactor, or fail in the building phase it will cause a nuclear hazard with "tschernobylite" or what it was called. tschernobyl is a sad story, you shouldn't play around with that, but nobody complains about that.

the mod that started this was called "girls".
the "" in "girls" made it look like it's not about girl NPCs but something else ...
even if it is just about bikini girls, it raised a lot of attention because of that title.
if it would be released as a James Bond mod pack with bikini girls, guns and cars, i guess nobody would argue about it being inappropriate.

if something is signed as 18+, it only gets more interesting for children just because it is forbidden.
so making an extra forum for that, would just raise the kids attention and since they are usually more computer skilled than their parents, they will find a way to get it.

I've never really felt the need to have adult mods in Minetest, but it seems others do. The only purpose a adult sub forum would solve, in my opinion, would be to stop NSFW content appearing when you don't want it (eg: checking the forums on the bus). But it would still appear on "unread topics".

Also consider that schools etc may block this site if it has such a sub-forum. Sims3 mods/modthesims have a separate site for the adult content, and I think that is what we should do.

rubenwardy wrote:
Also consider that schools etc may block this site if it has such a sub-forum. Sims3 mods/modthesims have a separate site for the adult content, and I think that is what we should do.

Agreed. I think we want to have both as much freedom as possible for the community without sacrificing anything. The only way to completely do that would be a separate site so that we don't get blocked by schools or create these constant arguments that damage the community. Brilliant idea.

Agreed, a separate site would satisfy everyone.

I think a separate site just for adult content is a lot of effort. I can't imagine it's a market that is going to take off. If somebody wanted to start their own adult themed minetest forum that's their prerogative.

According to the forum terms a separate site is about the only option:

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “Minetest Forums” is hosted or International Law.

That's a bit ambiguous so I suppose it's up to the moderators to decide what is vulgar, obscene, or sexually-orientated. I think that pretty well settles it.

Where are the forum rules? I can never find them!

benrob0329 wrote:Where are the forum rules? I can never find them!

I had to log out and click register, it's the first thing that comes up when you try to register.

Sorry guys, I added a poll option for nowhere (realizing that might be a valid choice), and it deleted all the poll results.

BrandonReese wrote:

benrob0329 wrote:Where are the forum rules? I can never find them!

I had to log out and click register, it's the first thing that comes up when you try to register.

This really needs to be posted on the site somewhere. It could have avoided this whole argument. (Well, probably not, but at least it would have gone in a different direction.)

None of the poll options are suitable for me, 18+ material should not be on this site, purely to avoid the site being blocked. Another site is not worth the bother for a couple of mods per year. 18+ mods can be publisised on people's own Github account or on IRC or elsewhere.

It may make some feel better to know the author of the girls mod is female. I downloaded the mod and after all the fuss it's fairly harmless, no 18+ content, just 3 cute girls in pretty underwear.

paramat wrote:None of the poll options are suitable for me, 18+ material should not be on this site, purely to avoid the site being blocked. Another site is not worth the bother for a couple of mods per year. 18+ mods can be publisised on people's own Github account or on IRC or elsewhere.

It may make some feel better to know the author of the girls mod is female. I downloaded the mod and after all the fuss it's fairly harmless, no 18+ content, just 3 cute girls in pretty underwear.

The other wrench in all of this is that the mods themselves are probably not going to be 18+. They are going to be more like 13+, as this mod was. It's more the conversation that becomes 18+. That tends to get deleted by the moderators, but it would be nice if there was a way where they didn't have to deal with cleaning all that up, and it could be assumed that the viewers were 18+. Maybe there could be a 13+ and an 18+ sub forum on this site where developers could at least mention their github sites, and the sub forum rule would be that the discussion about the mods could go on the github sites?

duane wrote:

BrandonReese wrote:

benrob0329 wrote:Where are the forum rules? I can never find them!

I had to log out and click register, it's the first thing that comes up when you try to register.

This really needs to be posted on the site somewhere. It could have avoided this whole argument. (Well, probably not, but at least it would have gone in a different direction.)

Agreed, but first I think there needs to be at least some sort of a place for and way of handling these mods without just shutting them down, as the language in the current rules could do. The games & mods on steam can get very graphic, much moreso than this mod that got removed from this site.

Interesting on how other projects on github are dealing with the same issue:

https://github.com/gratipay/gratipay.com/issues/3032

It is possible to develop tools to limit the exposure of accounts from each subgroup to other, to allow people to preserve their own community culture, and allow people to mark profiles as 'classified' - not only 'adult only', but dozens of other communities that will face difficulties if exposed openly on the Gratipay pages. Not because they are doing something illegal, but because there are many opinions on the Internet, so if you want to preserve diversity, you shouldn't place rabbits and pythons into the same cage.

They could post a link and description to their GitHub on the Offtopic thread, clearly saying that it's 18 or 13+.

paramat wrote:None of the poll options are suitable for me, 18+ material should not be on this site, purely to avoid the site being blocked. Another site is not worth the bother -snip-

It may make some feel better to know the author of the girls mod is female. I downloaded the mod and after all the fuss it's fairly harmless, no 18+ content, just 3 cute girls in pretty underwear.

Completely agree with paramat.

The people here are making so much trouble for something that they probably didn't even tested.

I was protesting the fact that (before she edited her post) it said that it was going to contain "exotic dancers"

Maybe it wouldn't have been such a big deal if it wasn't presented like that?

I dont have anything against bikinis, or girls, but "exotic dancers" I will not tolerate.