JPG v PNG

slopsbucket
Member
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 22:56

JPG v PNG

by slopsbucket » Thu Mar 24, 2016 22:49

An issue that greatly affects bandwidth both on the server and for individuals accessing it.

A 1920 X 1080 screenshot in PNG format is on average 1500 Kb in size.
The same image in JPG format on average is a little over 200 Kb in size.

People use the excuse that PNG format is Free Open Source but it's a rubbish format that has poor pixel shading and even worse compression. The improvements to this format in the last 20 years have been minimal, almost nonexistent. It's still not much better that the old GIF format.

The JPG format (jpeg) has seen extensive development still being continued around the world and is today considered to be Public Domain except by a couple of US based money-grubbers with no true legal basis for their claims.

From Wikipedia:

"The JPEG committee investigated the patent claims in 2002 and were of the opinion that they were invalidated by prior art."

"In February 2006, the United States Patent and Trademark Office agreed to re-examine Forgent's JPEG patent at the request of the Public Patent Foundation. On May 26, 2006 the USPTO found the patent invalid based on prior art. The USPTO also found that Forgent knew about the prior art, and did not tell the Patent Office, making any appeal to reinstate the patent highly unlikely to succeed."

The same thing is happening again now, once again only in the United States, by a company called Princeton Digital Image Corporation. Another quote from Wikipedia:

"The patent was originally owned and assigned to General Electric. The patent expired in December 2007."

"Court records indicate that it (General Electric) assigned the patent to Princeton in 2009 and retains certain rights in the patent."

I don't pretend to understand the legal system in the US, but anywhere else in the world it looks like the equivalent of large companies trying to sell the Sydney Harbour Bridge or the Washington Monument.

There's plenty of Free Open Source Software that utilises the JPEG format with no mention of licensing concerns, including GIMP and Python scripts for the Apache server software.

The only way these money-grubbers can succeed is if we let them. Its the same deal with MP3, the basic MP3 decoding and encoding technology is patent-free in the European Union and most of the rest of the world but that hasn't stopped a large US based corporation from trying to rip people off.

Food for thought.

Cheers,

Andrew.
 

User avatar
MineYoshi
Member
 
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 13:20
GitHub: MineYosh
IRC: MineYoshi
In-game: Kirby_Retro

Re: JPG v PNG

by MineYoshi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 00:07

People talk about freedom of speech, so i'll say that God exists.
Open your eyes!! See The big unicorn conspiracy.!! :D The government has been lying to us about unicorns!!
"I've learned there are three things you don't discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin" - Linus Van Pelt
I'm the Officially 1st ABJist in the world ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

slopsbucket
Member
 
Posts: 235
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2014 22:56

Re: JPG v PNG

by slopsbucket » Fri Mar 25, 2016 02:16

Thanks MineYoshi,

I never noticed that thread before.

The reason I posted is because I live in a remote area with very slow and very expensive internet. Because of all the PNG files I can't afford to open the Screenshots page, too many Mb's and too slow. Must cause extra expense for the Forum's server host as well.

Cheers,

Andrew.
 

User avatar
MineYoshi
Member
 
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 13:20
GitHub: MineYosh
IRC: MineYoshi
In-game: Kirby_Retro

Re: JPG v PNG

by MineYoshi » Fri Mar 25, 2016 02:30

Well, anyways i better something expensive with the best quality, that a cheap thing with bad quality1

Keep that in mind =D!
People talk about freedom of speech, so i'll say that God exists.
Open your eyes!! See The big unicorn conspiracy.!! :D The government has been lying to us about unicorns!!
"I've learned there are three things you don't discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin" - Linus Van Pelt
I'm the Officially 1st ABJist in the world ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

User avatar
rubenwardy
Member
 
Posts: 4500
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 18:11
GitHub: rubenwardy
IRC: rubenwardy
In-game: rubenwardy

Re: JPG v PNG

by rubenwardy » Fri Mar 25, 2016 02:44

JPG also losses quality. For most Minetest screenshots however, a JPG is okay.
Try using these:
https://developer.chrome.com/multidevic ... ompression
http://www.howtogeek.com/181567/how-to- ... martphone/
 

User avatar
Gael de Sailly
Member
 
Posts: 475
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 17:01
GitHub: Gael-de-Sailly
IRC: Gael-de-Sailly
In-game: Gael-de-Sailly

Re: JPG v PNG

by Gael de Sailly » Fri Mar 25, 2016 09:21

PNG images are also compressed, without data loss, with zlib, based on bytes redundancy. So that's nearny inefficient on photos, because every pixel has a different color. But here on minetest screenshots, many adjacent pixels have the same color, so the compression may not be that bad.
JPEG is better adapted for photos. It uses a very efficient compression but with loss of quality. The disadvantage is that it creates some chaotic blurred zones. It usually goes unnoticed for a real photo, but a minetest screenshot is not the same picture style, and this may be visible. There is still different quality levels. Obviously the lowest will give an ugly image. I don't know whether the highest levels are acceptable or not. It's up to you to see.

For the blocks textures, using the JPEG format is inconceivable. It's adapted for big images, and the for a tiny 16x16 image, these "blurred zones" would take the whole image.
Very busy this year too, so do not expect me to be very active on the forum or in game. But I'm not about to drop Minetest forever :)
 

Hybrid Dog
Member
 
Posts: 2460
Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:46

Re: JPG v PNG

by Hybrid Dog » Sat Apr 09, 2016 15:14

l found this at erlehmann's website l think:
http://xiphmont.livejournal.com/35634.html
 

User avatar
AiTechEye
Member
 
Posts: 409
Joined: Fri May 29, 2015 21:14

Re: JPG v PNG

by AiTechEye » Tue Apr 12, 2016 17:51

This is my experience of this 2 image types:

JPG/JPEG:
Quality loss after every time you are editing
No transparent
Blurry details
Using less space / ram


PNG:
Do not lose quality after editing
Transparent
Make the image exactly how you want it
Using more space / ram

PNG is a lot more used by programs and webpages then jpg
JPG/JPEG should not be used in games :-)

its worth the small difference

this should be the sufficient proof, png is the best for minetest, see the test:

I just opened,saved and closed each image in a image editor (mspaint) 10 times, see what happened:

The png image is still exactly the same, but not the jpg


Image
Attachments
difjptest.png
difjptest.png (25.41 KiB) Viewed 831 times
Alive AI Mine/Build AI NPC
Gravitygun HL2
Portalgun Portal
Marssurvive Survive on mars
Bows bows + arrows
SoundCloud (Music)
SoundCloud (Classic)
YouTube
 

User avatar
MineYoshi
Member
 
Posts: 4267
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 13:20
GitHub: MineYosh
IRC: MineYoshi
In-game: Kirby_Retro

Re: JPG v PNG

by MineYoshi » Tue Apr 12, 2016 22:30

UjEdwin wrote:This is my experience of this 2 image types:

JPG/JPEG:
Quality loss after every time you are editing
No transparent
Blurry details
Using less space / ram


PNG:
Do not lose quality after editing
Transparent
Make the image exactly how you want it
Using more space / ram

PNG is a lot more used by programs and webpages then jpg
JPG/JPEG should not be used in games :-)

its worth the small difference

this should be the sufficient proof, png is the best for minetest, see the test:

I just opened,saved and closed each image in a image editor (mspaint) 10 times, see what happened:

The png image is still exactly the same, but not the jpg


Image



This is a closed case, simply everyone here knows the fact that PNG wins here, everyone chooses quality instead of price, maybe PNG is slower to upload sometimes, but gives better quality, something that we need here!
Good quality in textures and screenshots!

Also there is a post with the same theme in the "Feature Discussion" , better don't make this post more long!
People talk about freedom of speech, so i'll say that God exists.
Open your eyes!! See The big unicorn conspiracy.!! :D The government has been lying to us about unicorns!!
"I've learned there are three things you don't discuss with people: religion, politics and the Great Pumpkin" - Linus Van Pelt
I'm the Officially 1st ABJist in the world ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
 

User avatar
Don
Member
 
Posts: 1641
Joined: Sat May 17, 2014 18:40
GitHub: DonBatman
IRC: Batman
In-game: Batman

Re: JPG v PNG

by Don » Thu Apr 14, 2016 15:25

You can get data compression proxy add ons for browser. They will reduce the size of the website before sending it to you.
Many of my mods are now a part of Minetest-mods. A place where you know they are maintained!

A list of my mods can be found here
 


Return to Minetest General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 35 guests

cron