"MINETEZT IZ NUT MINECRAFP"

[ABJ]

I've been noticing, quite a few places where a good idea for Minetest that is currently present in Minecraft is mentioned, people say this.
Seriously, so what??
If an idea is good, and players like it, then give me any good reason why any stupid "other" game, whether it be Minecraft or Roblox, must stop us from making our game better! Just because it is in that other game, which we do not like "CUZ ITZ NUT TIHS", we scream like it's blasphemy. And anyway, why do we hate Minecraft? Is it bad? Is it a piece of shhh? Why this game a piece of shhh? All it is is another video game that was more successful then ours! Is that why we are jealous of it?! Are we really that immature, that we should be jealous of another work of art, which, I declare out loud, has aspects that are superior to ours? Are we to be butthurt that Minecr*p has mobs, and so not add it? Are we to shun dimensions because it may be seeming to copy Minecraft? Are we just so crybaby as to not admit to our own inferiorities compared to some others?
No, Minetest is not a piece of shhh, and neither is Minecraft!! If we don't learn to accept this, then we deserve all the abuse that are being hurled at us!

[firefox]

i guess the problem is not the suggestions of content that is also present in those other games, but the way those suggestions are made.

most of the time it's like "can we have other dimensions in separate worlds with portals? like a nether and an end dimension? that would be so awesome."
it's a direct <insert game name here> has this, so we must have it too suggestion.
since minetest is not a clone that wants to re-create those games, those ideas will be rejected.

i guess it would be different if it was more like "how about expanding the mapgen to generate additional world layers, after all the world size is big enough. we could have an underworld and a sky world."

as far as i can remember every new suggestion was directly referencing to that other game and even using the exact same names despite presenting it as an "original new idea". :P

[XtremeHacker]

i guess the problem is not the suggestions of content that is also present in those other games, but the way those suggestions are made.

most of the time it's like "can we have other dimensions in separate worlds with portals? like a nether and an end dimension? that would be so awesome."
it's a direct <insert game name here> has this, so we must have it too suggestion.
since minetest is not a clone that wants to re-create those games, those ideas will be rejected.

i guess it would be different if it was more like "how about expanding the mapgen to generate additional world layers, after all the world size is big enough. we could have an underworld and a sky world."

as far as i can remember every new suggestion was directly referencing to that other game and even using the exact same names despite presenting it as an "original new idea". :P

I think that is part of the problem, people come here expecting a direct clone, but we aren't, we just have the stuff so you can make it into one if you want.
But Minetest has no set direction, and the default game is a weird "balance" of modding base, and sub-par game, so confusion arises.

[GreenDimond]

FYI: Mobs are a planned feature. Dimensions are being discussed.

[Wuzzy]

I take a very pragmatic approach here:
Clone the good features, ignore the bullshit, and have own ideas.

Discussions should be based on the merit of the idea itself. Whether it improves Minetest. These are the only relevant arguments. It is completely irrelevant if the idea is or was used in any other game.

But since Minetest is obviously heavily based on the idea of Minecraft, it makes a lot of sense to still take a good look at Minecraft. Minecraft has both good features but also some bullshit or features which may be OK for Minecraft, but are questionable for Minetest.

Good things: Lots of gameplay (not part of Minetest's goal, of course), Fluid animations, rich mob system, tons of commands, support (!) for other parrallel worlds (called “dimensions”), items are forced out of solid blocks instead of being stuck, …

Bullshit: Complicated crafting system for no reason, height limit of 256, no in-game help whatsoever (MC is unplayable without wiki or crafting guide), being proprietary software, weak privilege system (basically just op/mod/nobody), a few hardcoded controls, the name “dimensions” (seriously, dimensions are X, Y and Z. What they mean are parrallel worlds) …

Bad for Minetest:
- Hardcoded 20 HP
- Crafting system almost EXACTLY like in Minecraft (it has many problematic implications, like even very basic crafting recipes with more than 9 of the same items are impossible without rolling out your very own crafting replacement)
- Weird Forge nonsense
- Overloaded rightclick
- …

Also, deny it all you want, but Minetest IS heavily influenced by Minecraft. And it's okay, it's no reason to be ashamed of. While not a direct clone, many of the core aspects are OBVIOUS direct copies of Minecraft. Sometimes I think Minetest cloned Minecraft a little TOO well, like why do we still have 20 HP hardcoded? Or why does the crafting system suck so much? Etc.

Minetest can never be a direct clone of Minecraft because it is an engine.
But this doesn't mean this engine can't be used for Minecraft clones. :P I'm currently making MineClone 2, a mostly direct clone of Minecraft and probably the closest Minecraft clone in the world as of now (even it is very alpha). :-)
But even here I am not 100% strict. I try to stay true to the gameplay but I won't fear from deviating from Minecraft when I think the UI or usability sucks. That's why I added a crafting guide.

This is one example of the principle of “Clone the good stuff, ignore the bullshit” in action. :-)

[XtremeHacker]

I take a very pragmatic approach here:
Clone the good features, ignore the bullshit, and have own ideas.

Discussions should be based on the merit of the idea itself. Whether it improves Minetest. These are the only relevant arguments. It is completely irrelevant if the idea is or was used in any other game.

But since Minetest is obviously heavily based on the idea of Minecraft, it makes a lot of sense to still take a good look at Minecraft. Minecraft has both good features but also some bullshit or features which may be OK for Minecraft, but are questionable for Minetest.

Good things: Lots of gameplay (not part of Minetest's goal, of course), Fluid animations, rich mob system, tons of commands, support (!) for other parrallel worlds (called “dimensions”), items are forced out of solid blocks instead of being stuck, …

Bullshit: Complicated crafting system for no reason, height limit of 256, no in-game help whatsoever (MC is unplayable without wiki or crafting guide), being proprietary software, weak privilege system (basically just op/mod/nobody), a few hardcoded controls, the name “dimensions” (seriously, dimensions are X, Y and Z. What they mean are parrallel worlds) …

Bad for Minetest:
- Hardcoded 20 HP
- Crafting system almost EXACTLY like in Minecraft (it has many problematic implications, like even very basic crafting recipes with more than 9 of the same items are impossible without rolling out your very own crafting replacement)
- Weird Forge nonsense
- Overloaded rightclick
- …

Also, deny it all you want, but Minetest IS heavily influenced by Minecraft. And it's okay, it's no reason to be ashamed of. While not a direct clone, many of the core aspects are OBVIOUS direct copies of Minecraft. Sometimes I think Minetest cloned Minecraft a little TOO well, like why do we still have 20 HP hardcoded? Or why does the crafting system suck so much? Etc.

Minetest can never be a direct clone of Minecraft because it is an engine.
But this doesn't mean this engine can't be used for Minecraft clones. :P I'm currently making MineClone 2, a mostly direct clone of Minecraft and probably the closest Minecraft clone in the world as of now (even it is very alpha). :-)
But even here I am not 100% strict. I try to stay true to the gameplay but I won't fear from deviating from Minecraft when I think the UI or usability sucks. That's why I added a crafting guide.

This is one example of the principle of “Clone the good stuff, ignore the bullshit” in action. :-)

Exactly!
Big problem is we need to have a designated modding base (basically what minetest_game is now), and then an actual game where we can make a good "vanilla" game, not this messy in between (minetest minmal game is not used mch, due to being too barebones-ish), and any engine-ish features added to minetest_vannilla game, (i.e. mobs/mob framework, armour" would get added to the minetest mod devving subgame.

Due to the weird "balance" of modding base/game that minetest_game has right now, no one (not even some/most of the core devs) know what features should be a seperate mod, and what should be in an actual "game", thus causing the issues with what PRs should get merged, and which ones shouldn't.

[ABJ]

Wuzzy is right. We've already very much cloned Minecraft the same way Minecraft cloned Infiniminer even at the expense of the systems in question that are cloned being less perfect than systems we can come up with. If we do not feel bad saying that Minecraft is a clone of another game, then it is outright hypocrisy to say that "Minetest is NOT ANYTHING LIKE MINECRAFT SO U CANT HAVE MOBS".

A very common argument against all gameplay-enriching features that come from Minecraft, especially mobs is that it encroaches on Minetest's beauty and elegance in being a moddable game. If you are too lazy to download a few mods, then why are you even playing this game? No wonder Minetest is not popular. How does this miracle community expect to get the game a good playerbase by being so critical of the players' wants? Who are we to decide what they want from the game or what they don't? In any case, tell me, how does adding features to MTG destroy Minetest's code? Does it mess up Lua? What does it do to change Minetest's moddability? To me, this just looks like hating on another game for being itself. If we find the Minecraft community so obnoxious, then why are we acting like them?

Also, please stop telling me I am doubting the developers' hard work, because, I'll make this short, I am not! They work very hard. It's just the community behind them that I am so critical of.

(I know mobs are planned but arguments is what I've been hearing for the last 2 years.)