FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

Why were jungles removed?

They were removed because celeron55 thought they were "boring"

The jungletrees from moretrees (based on those by bas080) are very decorative. On servers not running moretrees, standard simple jungletrees would be better than nothing. Their trunks and wood look good.

It is more boring when you have only one tree. Now no one can make nice tree houses.

Threre should be what me think, oh yeah a super tree!

It's true that the base of the tree looked sort of... *erm* :P. I think that if he (or someone) adds it back, they would have to edit the tree generation code.

On Github, there is a Minetest branch called jungleanddungeons. I can only assume that means there are plans to add jungles and dungeons back into the game. So the default:jungletree and default:mossycobble nodes will once again be obtainable and serve a function.

That only leaves us with default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps and default:cloud to figure out what to do with. Jungles and dungeons are great, but can't come up with any ideas on what to do with default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps and default:cloud. I say we delete them, and alias the names to default:dirt_with_grass and air, respectively. There's no point in having unobtainable nodes defined.

Could jungles have their own dirt and stone types just like deserts do? That will make them much more interesting.

0gb.us wrote:On Github, there is a Minetest branch called jungleanddungeons. I can only assume that means there are plans to add jungles and dungeons back into the game. So the default:jungletree and default:mossycobble nodes will once again be obtainable and serve a function.

That only leaves us with default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps and default:cloud to figure out what to do with. Jungles and dungeons are great, but can't come up with any ideas on what to do with default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps and default:cloud. I say we delete them, and alias the names to default:dirt_with_grass and air, respectively. There's no point in having unobtainable nodes defined.

That branch is for the old mapgen and hasn't been updated, so i doubt there's plans anymore. Sad, those were the best jungles and dungeons.

grass_with_footsteps used to be left in a trail when you walked. It was disabled by default. It has been removed now; yet another unique minetest feature casualty.

i say add them back! what were the dungeons like?

jojoa1997 wrote:i say add them back! what were the dungeons like?

a bunch of rooms made of cobble and mossy cobble, connected by hallways and stairs. Some dungeons were quite large, with half a dozen rooms or more. The spawned pretty frequently, and opened onto the surface and into caves often. Much better than those boring 1 room minecraft ones.

I don't see how they were boring. It provided a neat scenery. If it's because you couldn't craft them into wood, all that was needed for them to do was add a crafting recipe in lua to do so by default. I think that was a major complaint in the early days of Minetest about jungle tree. You were only stuck with the tree and nothing else. Because of which, no one on servers bothered to mine them.

what version of minetest haad these i want to get it. was it a stable one?

I liked hollowing out the jungle canopy to make a treehouse. Normal trees, and the jungletrees added by most lua mods, don't have enough leaves for that. And lua jungle mods don't have junglegrass and some have weird extra thick trunks. Bring back 0.3.x jungles!

jojoa1997 wrote:what version of minetest haad these i want to get it. was it a stable one?

Definitely in 0.3.2 or earlier. Maybe an early 0.4.dev version.

could someone make a build for the jungles and dungeons branch https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/jungleanddungeons

This is the "latest" to have jungles before being axed. This version still supported mobs likes DMs, rats, fireflies and other legacy stuff. Even though it is a dev version, it feels very stable.

Edit: This also allow lua adjustments for mods too.

could you send me a map download i cant find it after 30 minutes. also can anyone make dungeons like the ones in the minetest version above.

This old server map has a few dungeons and jungles in it. I found it while looking for old maps to look at.
http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=691
Most of the mods indicated by the unknown blocks still exist, but a few don't. Even if you have mods that generate biomes, ores, strata, plants, and trees, you will be able to use the map in the latest git version of Minetest (the results of doing so, however, will be interesting.)

Menche wrote:[That branch is for the old mapgen and hasn't been updated, so i doubt there's plans anymore. Sad, those were the best jungles and dungeons.

grass_with_footsteps used to be left in a trail when you walked. It was disabled by default. It has been removed now; yet another unique minetest feature casualty.

It was updated a month ago. You're probably right that it won't be added, but I still hope.

I figured default:dirt_with_grass_footsteps was for something like that, but have never seen it in action.

jojoa1997 wrote:could someone make a build for the jungles and dungeons branch https://github.com/celeron55/minetest/tree/jungleanddungeons

I can build it if you like, but I doubt it will do you much good for two reasons. First, I can't build for Windows, so my builds are for Linux. Second, I built it and flew around (through the air AND stone), but I couldn't find any jungles and dungeons. They haven't been fully added even to that branch is my guess.

Menche wrote:

jojoa1997 wrote:i say add them back! what were the dungeons like?

a bunch of rooms made of cobble and mossy cobble, connected by hallways and stairs. Some dungeons were quite large, with half a dozen rooms or more. The spawned pretty frequently, and opened onto the surface and into caves often. Much better than those boring 1 room minecraft ones.

I liked dungeons too. Did DM's spawn in them?

yeah but thaty also spawn in underground caves. really anything underground and dark. also i dont remember if i said it but can someone make a mod to read at least the dungeons themselves and not the mobs.

jojoa1997 wrote:yeah but thaty also spawn in underground caves. really anything underground and dark. also i dont remember if i said it but can someone make a mod to read at least the dungeons themselves and not the mobs.

Celeron55 himself wrote one to add back dungeons and Dungeon Masters, although the Dungeon Masters themselves are non-responsive. You can kill them, but there's not much spot in it when they don't fight back. Personally, I leave them alone, and just consider them to be freindly residents.

http://c55.me/random/2012-07/mobs.tar.gz

If you want the Dungeon Masters removed, I imagin it wouldn't be hard, but I'm a bit too busy to look at the code right now.

0gb.us wrote:

jojoa1997 wrote:yeah but thaty also spawn in underground caves. really anything underground and dark. also i dont remember if i said it but can someone make a mod to read at least the dungeons themselves and not the mobs.

Celeron55 himself wrote one to add back dungeons and Dungeon Masters, although the Dungeon Masters themselves are non-responsive. You can kill them, but there's not much spot in it when they don't fight back. Personally, I leave them alone, and just consider them to be freindly residents.

http://c55.me/random/2012-07/mobs.tar.gz

If you want the Dungeon Masters removed, I imagin it wouldn't be hard, but I'm a bit too busy to look at the code right now.

I think the DM should have its aggressive attitude back, but I think everyone would agree that the DM's fire blast needs to be nerfed to a point where it cannot destroy certain objects (or destroy no objects at all).

At this point, DM's are actually far more powerful than Creepers from MC. Creepers explode and destroy the environment around them, sure, but at least they die afterwards.

DMs on the other hand can continue to fire away at you and destroy your creation from a distant, not to mention they take ages to kill.

As for dungeons, I remember a discussion not too long ago where some were looking into adding treasure in the dungeons and that some dungeons would have lava too.

rubenwardy wrote:They were removed because celeron55 thought they were "boring"

Ehm... What the fuck? Why are you even saying such blatant lies that you probably know are lies yourself too?

They were removed because the mapgen was reworked based on an older version, and then they weren't added back because since then, making mapgen more controllable from Lua has been on the to-do lists. Needless to say, that hasn't had too much progress for a year.

I'm all in for adding the old jungles (and dungeons) back, but other people have been working on mapgen-related stuff so I haven't wanted to go mess with it. Maybe I'll do that some day because of requests. Or somebody else can; the branches that I recently made are free to use and/or merge.

On a related note, a properly recreated DM (and the rat) would be fine too. It just seems nobody (including me) is up to putting the amount of polish in a re-implementation that I did to the original C++ version...

Gambit wrote:I think the DM should have its aggressive attitude back, but I think everyone would agree that the DM's fire blast needs to be nerfed to a point where it cannot destroy certain objects (or destroy no objects at all).

Definitely. Personally, I think no destruction, or perhaps destruction of only flammable nodes would be best.

celeron55 wrote:

rubenwardy wrote:They were removed because celeron55 thought they were "boring"

Ehm... What the fuck? Why are you even saying such blatant lies that you probably know are lies yourself too?

They were removed because the mapgen was reworked based on an older version, and then they weren't added back because since then, making mapgen more controllable from Lua has been on the to-do lists. Needless to say, that hasn't had too much progress for a year.

I'm all in for adding the old jungles (and dungeons) back, but other people have been working on mapgen-related stuff so I haven't wanted to go mess with it. Maybe I'll do that some day because of requests. Or somebody else can; the branches that I recently made are free to use and/or merge.

On a related note, a properly recreated DM (and the rat) would be fine too. It just seems nobody (including me) is up to putting the amount of polish in a re-implementation that I did to the original C++ version...

There seems to be a rumour that you thought they were boring, so you removed them. I actually believed it myself, but I'm glad to hear you don't actually feel that way. Rubenwardy probably heard the rumour and believed it as well.

Whether or not c55 considers jungles to be truly boring, I believe this excerpt from #minetest-delta (http://logs.2pktfkt.de/minetest-delta/2012-04-03.html) is what everyone's latched onto:

#13:38 <celeron55> and no, jungles are not generated
#13:39 <Calinou> will you re-add them or just remove them
#13:39 <celeron55> dunno
#13:40 <celeron55> they were pretty boring; i won't add them as-is

celeron55 wrote:

rubenwardy wrote:They were removed because celeron55 thought they were "boring"

Ehm... What the fuck? Why are you even saying such blatant lies that you probably know are lies yourself too?

They were removed because the mapgen was reworked based on an older version, and then they weren't added back because since then, making mapgen more controllable from Lua has been on the to-do lists. Needless to say, that hasn't had too much progress for a year.

I'm all in for adding the old jungles (and dungeons) back, but other people have been working on mapgen-related stuff so I haven't wanted to go mess with it. Maybe I'll do that some day because of requests. Or somebody else can; the branches that I recently made are free to use and/or merge.

On a related note, a properly recreated DM (and the rat) would be fine too. It just seems nobody (including me) is up to putting the amount of polish in a re-implementation that I did to the original C++ version...

Slander

VanessaE wrote:Whether or not c55 considers jungles to be truly boring, I believe this excerpt from #minetest-delta (http://logs.2pktfkt.de/minetest-delta/2012-04-03.html) is what everyone's latched onto:

#13:38 <celeron55> and no, jungles are not generated
#13:39 <Calinou> will you re-add them or just remove them
#13:39 <celeron55> dunno
#13:40 <celeron55> they were pretty boring; i won't add them as-is

Yes, that is right

Hybrid Dog wrote:

What build is that?

it is a swamp mod but i mean have the old trees back. it is much quickr when they were generated in C