FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

so i just gonna tell you i'm back. i hope i haven't made a mistake coming back.

omg. look like topic where i think post it deleted while i write it... so i post it here as in most related topic (about community project)
while my opinion not important i will say it anyway. i think native plugin can solve at least some problems. in case when VIPs (like core developers etc.) wont accept some in game engine is can be pushed in plugin (new one or some existing - dont matter).

celeron55 wrote:compiling C++ modules for all supported platforms simply sucks.

no, if they in main source tree. i mean plugins, which just technically not included in main engine but included in build system (and in main git repo) so they can be on/off on configure time and then compiled together with engine. dont look so hard just pass -DSOME_PPLUGIN=ON or even just check in cmake-gui. sure, plugins means possibility on/off at run time, but possibility off them at configure time give option for ppl who even wont compile them.
what it give at the end? well, all understand, we cant have all features in LUA mods, LUA not fast enough for it. on the other hand i fully understand ppl who want have engine small and simply. i think main problem is conflict between ppl at this two sides - simplicity and very featured, conservative and progressive. plugins will give option for both of them. sure native plugins is NOT "silver bullet" which solve all conflicts, but i hope is can at least some tone down them.
to be clear, i more on side rich featured game, i think usual flow will be like this: idea -> lua mod -> native code. in my opinion migrate from lua to native code important to keep mods small and fast. but i not enough communicative to take any side in any conflict. i prefer avoid them and just look how it flow. only in case when i think i can propose something what can conciliate i try do it. i still sure, lua modding is great but if some players need install about 10+ mods to have fun is not good. actually they can dont get any fun because when they finally get all wanted features game easily can become unplayable (by low fps and lags).

actually, you plugin idea appeal very much to me! it's quite pleasing to see someone considering the problem and requests from both sides. thank you for informing me on the problem and opinions about it.

It would be nice to see features added to this that official builds doesn't have. Not as github log, but here, in this thread as a list in the first post )

I request that while this does exist and however much you hate the core team, do not stop making pull requests to minetest/minetest. That wouldn't do any good to anyone.

You shouldn't probably worry about it, celeron55. On the contrary - if features merged to this fork will be accepted and desired, then it's one more reason to make a pull request to the original master too.
But the reason this exist is that a few people decide over, and I'm not afraid to say it, hundreds. When I and Mito want smth merged - core team thinks "Oh, it's just two of them...". But when two core devs want smth merged - it's settled (if two more of them are indifferent). There's no hate, just this injustice and lack of the balance. There are only few things which were actually discussed at the forums. Please, don't tell about IRC - the most of us is here, at the forums.

4aiman wrote:Please, don't tell about IRC - the most of us is here, at the forums.

No, this is wrong. I have most interaction with the Minetest community on IRC. Also most development is done in IRC and all the well known community members hang out there.
I think IRC is the main platform for the Minetest community. The forum is just good for mod / texture pack releases.

By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

4aiman wrote:By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

PilzAdam wrote:

4aiman wrote:By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

this forum is the official one. you can't deny this place. It'll be better if you just close the forum itself. why do you need it if all the people who develop the game are on irc? it is simply wrong. just leave the modding section and move on.

celeron55 wrote:I request that while this does exist and however much you hate the core team, do not stop making pull requests to minetest/minetest. That wouldn't do any good to anyone.

i don't want to do so. rather i want every commit trying to get upstream comes to my fork as well as upstream. I mean both. if that happens, we'll see what to do next.

Mito551 wrote:

PilzAdam wrote:

4aiman wrote:By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

this forum is the official one. you can't deny this place. It'll be better if you just close the forum itself. why do you need it if all the people who develop the game are on irc? it is simply wrong. just leave the modding section and move on.

Oh, you got that wrong. There is no harm in having many different communication channels. The forum is really nice.
I just want to say that IRC is the main medium for development, and its isnt very good to avoid being in IRC when you want to develop Minetest.
You can still be part of the community if you just hang out in the forum (many people do that), but its not good if you want to develop Minetest.

PilzAdam wrote:

Mito551 wrote:

PilzAdam wrote:Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

this forum is the official one. you can't deny this place. It'll be better if you just close the forum itself. why do you need it if all the people who develop the game are on irc? it is simply wrong. just leave the modding section and move on.

Oh, you got that wrong. There is no harm in having many different communication channels. The forum is really nice.
I just want to say that IRC is the main medium for development, and its isnt very good to avoid being in IRC when you want to develop Minetest.
You can still be part of the community if you just hang out in the forum (many people do that), but its not good if you want to develop Minetest.

that's terrible. anyway thanks for FINALLY pointing that out

i tried joining irc. it's not letting me anymore
it says:

webchat is muted due to too many spammers using the webchat.

Mito551 wrote:i tried joining irc. it's not letting me anymore
it says:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

Cannot send to channel: #minetest

Relax, I get that every other time I try to join a conversation there.

PilzAdam wrote:

4aiman wrote:By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

That was merely a sarcasm... Did you actually believe me? O_o

But still... Adam, what channel can I came to to ask questions about engine?
There are 4 and those "dev" ones are marked as "serious". I believe you have some rules there, so, please, explain. I don't want to say "Hello, I just came to ask about further direction and possible addition of a features which do not exist yet..." and be answered with "You know, this channel is for serious stuff kiddie..." or "Well, whadda you want anyway, punk? We have things to do, ya know?". I'm not saying anyone is like this on IRC, but I heard smth like that told at one of the other Minetest servers with dev IRC channel. So, what should I have or do beforehand to be treated adequately?

4aiman wrote:

Mito551 wrote:i tried joining irc. it's not letting me anymore
it says:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

Cannot send to channel: #minetest

Relax, I get that every other time I try to join a conversation there.

PilzAdam wrote:

4aiman wrote:By "community" I meant "end-users". IRC is rather chaotic. The only way to have a normal conversation is /ignore.
Now you should get it - I don't like chat rooms ;

Yea, but just because you dont like chatrooms doesnt mean that the whole development should be moved to the forum.
It is your fault if you dont want to accept the communication medium we (the core devs) use. Its like you want all of us to speak another language because you dont like English.

That was merely a sarcasm... Did you actually believe me? O_o

But still... Adam, what channel can I came to to ask questions about engine?
There are 4 and those "dev" ones are marked as "serious". I believe you have some rules there, so, please, explain. I don't want to say "Hello, I just came to ask about further direction and possible addition of a features which do not exist yet..." and be answered with "You know, this channel is for serious stuff kiddie..." or "Well, whadda you want anyway, punk? We have things to do, ya know?". I'm not saying anyone is like this on IRC, but I heard smth like that told at one of the other Minetest servers with dev IRC channel. So, what should I have or do beforehand to be treated adequately?

If your questions are about the core engine then youre welcome. But dont spam us with your questions. Also expect to wait a bit (up to some hours) before someone answers you. Also read the channel logs if you quit before you got answer: http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest-dev/
Also, I dont expect you to do that, but dont ask dumb questions.

Genrally we will tell you if you get offtopic; and noone will call you "kid" or "punk" that fast.

Note: webchat is not muted on #minetest-dev

You may try out the general #minetest channel first and just ask there or contact developers via /msg. I'm sure they'll redirect you to a more fitting channel if that's necessary. People on IRC may sometimes behave strangely (who doesn't how and then...), but at the core most are very friendly.

Wow. Taking this on is really brave of you, Mito. Awesome. :-)

celeron55 wrote:I request that while this does exist and however much you hate the core team, do not stop making pull requests to minetest/minetest. That wouldn't do any good to anyone.

Hmm. To be brutally honest I think you're dead wrong about that Celeron. It would do LOADS of good for people who try to contribute and are abused and put down for it. Why subject yourself to that? It would also do the folks with really big heads some good to deflate their feeling of importance a bit. If the original project's devs saw something they wanted, they could always pull things themselves without someone else coming to them for it with a pull request.

Sokomine wrote:People on IRC may sometimes behave strangely (who doesn't how and then...), but at the core most are very friendly.

Most, yes. But not all.

prestidigitator wrote:Wow. Taking this on is really brave of you, Mito. Awesome. :-)

thank you. i wish a lot of people were inspired at least as you are!

prestidigitator wrote:

celeron55 wrote:I request that while this does exist and however much you hate the core team, do not stop making pull requests to minetest/minetest. That wouldn't do any good to anyone.

Hmm. To be brutally honest I think you're dead wrong about that Celeron. It would do LOADS of good for people who try to contribute and are abused and put down for it. Why subject yourself to that? It would also do the folks with really big heads some good to deflate their feeling of importance a bit. If the original project's devs saw something they wanted, they could always pull things themselves without someone else coming to them for it with a pull request.

i'm not going to even make a hint of merging minetest/minetest and mito551/minetest until it is acknowledged that mito551/minetest has stuff that minetest/minetest don't and what it needs or at least it would rather to have

Mito551 wrote:

prestidigitator wrote:Wow. Taking this on is really brave of you, Mito. Awesome. :-)

thank you. i wish a lot of people were inspired at least as you are!

prestidigitator wrote:

celeron55 wrote:I request that while this does exist and however much you hate the core team, do not stop making pull requests to minetest/minetest. That wouldn't do any good to anyone.

Hmm. To be brutally honest I think you're dead wrong about that Celeron. It would do LOADS of good for people who try to contribute and are abused and put down for it. Why subject yourself to that? It would also do the folks with really big heads some good to deflate their feeling of importance a bit. If the original project's devs saw something they wanted, they could always pull things themselves without someone else coming to them for it with a pull request.

i'm not going to even make a hint of merging minetest/minetest and mito551/minetest until it is acknowledged that mito551/minetest has stuff that minetest/minetest don't and what it needs or at least it would rather to have

could you make builds for windows, I would like to test some new features.

jojoa1997 wrote:

Mito551 wrote:

prestidigitator wrote:Wow. Taking this on is really brave of you, Mito. Awesome. :-)

thank you. i wish a lot of people were inspired at least as you are!

prestidigitator wrote:
Hmm. To be brutally honest I think you're dead wrong about that Celeron. It would do LOADS of good for people who try to contribute and are abused and put down for it. Why subject yourself to that? It would also do the folks with really big heads some good to deflate their feeling of importance a bit. If the original project's devs saw something they wanted, they could always pull things themselves without someone else coming to them for it with a pull request.

i'm not going to even make a hint of merging minetest/minetest and mito551/minetest until it is acknowledged that mito551/minetest has stuff that minetest/minetest don't and what it needs or at least it would rather to have

could you make builds for windows, I would like to test some new features.

i will be trying to get it working, but i can't promise.

i can make build for windows if needed. but i lazy to do it very often :D

CryAngel wrote:i can make build for windows if needed. but i lazy to do it very often :D

oh my. directx support?

at least for me directx work good. for build i use MSVS 2010 under Win7 x64, so both x32 and x64 builds will be possible. btw i actually never try make x32, so not sure.