leave or not to leave this and the question

[shaneroach]

Uhm, ive written a few things. Why else would i argue for individual authors?

Stop guilt tripping people more generous than you.

Good grief, can you not manage to maintain your attention for the course of two complete sentences?
No one is stopping you from writing proprietary mods and keeping them for your own, personal profit. We just prefer to hear more about the generous people who allow their mods (and core code, for that matter) to be open to the public.

Stop guilt tripping people who grant a more generous license to their work than you do.

More or less the same as your last post, and it makes about as much sense. Isn't the whole point of your bitching that people do switch between copyleft and copyright? or am i not understanding something.

Same reply because you still have not answered the issue I raised, which is that since you have every right to do work and license it however you wish, why don't you do so and STOP TRASHING PEOPLE MORE GENEROUS THAN YOU?

Makes perfect sense, unlike every single solitary thing you have posted from the word go on this thread.

I'd love for people to use copyleft more. Your very existence on this board is detrimental to that, because the chaos you create makes people think copyleft is intrinsically chaotic. My solution?

Warn you a few times about bald faced lying and trolling, and then ban you if you continue to behave in this manner.

Happily, I am not in charge of this board. So blther away.

Open source has been around a long time. It is not going anywhere. I think the progress is actually away from strict IP because IP serves distributors and bankers, whereas the real power in society is, at long last, slowly transferring over to technocrats. These folks are beginning to get exceedingly tired of having bankers, lawyers, and distributors using IP to negotiate the lion's share of profits from the work of the technocrats out from under them using these sorts of laws.

[mauvebic]

Same reply because you still have not answered the issue I raised, which is that since you have every right to do work and license it however you wish, why don't you do so and STOP TRASHING PEOPLE MORE GENEROUS THAN YOU?

Calm down, I didn't start this thread, i noticed people were asking "why do people leave this way", I tried to offer that point of view. Now you're getting emotional because you don't like it.

Makes perfect sense, unlike every single solitary thing you have posted from the word go on this thread. I'd love for people to use copyleft more. Your very existence on this board is detrimental to that, because the chaos you create makes people think copyleft is intrinsically chaotic. My solution?

Warn you a few times about bald faced lying and trolling, and then ban you if you continue to behave in this manner.

Happily, I am not in charge of this board. So blther away.

What a surprising reaction from someone on the left, ban opposing point of views.

Open source has been around a long time. It is not going anywhere. I think the progress is actually away from strict IP because IP serves distributors and bankers, whereas the real power in society is, at long last, slowly transferring over to technocrats. These folks are beginning to get exceedingly tired of having bankers, lawyers, and distributors using IP to negotiate the lion's share of profits from the work of the technocrats out from under them using these sorts of laws.

Are all your dreams in technicolor?

[VanessaE]

Generally, open-source licenses can only be revoked if you're doing so in the process of releasing a newer version of a program. If you release MyWidget v0.1 under GPL, then v0.1 is under the GPL forever and cannot be revoked, even if you go completely closed source, for-pay, under-an-NDA with v0.2. Anyone is free to fork v0.1, make it do what v0.2 does without using any code from there, and if that's a problem for you, too bad.

[shaneroach]

People are leaving because the team of volunteers are not making whatever changes are demanded of them. People are rightly angered by the refusal of volunteers to make changes without being consulted.

I would take my toys and go home, but I have an axe to grind concerning all things free and generous, so I am going to endlessly insult people who are giving away free stuff.

There, I clarified your position for you.

Me as a leftist. How times have changed.

Last I checked, free markets and competition were right wing values, but whatever. Ultimately, right wing or left, things that work work, and things that don't don't.

Why don't you go whine to the people at Minecraft for not letting your buddy see their code, much less demand that his changes are made part of the core engine?

[mauvebic]

Generally, open-source licenses can only be revoked if you're doing so in the process of releasing a newer version of a program. If you release MyWidget v0.1 under GPL, then v0.1 is under the GPL forever and cannot be revoked, even if you go completely closed source, for-pay, under-an-NDA with v0.2. Anyone is free to fork v0.1, make it do what v0.2 does without using any code from there, and if that's a problem for you, too bad.

Usually though the derivs are already out there unless the mod is brand new. The problem is when someone has a thread, an old version they don't support, and a new version they can't post. Sometimes the thread gets moved back, or a new link to an old version editied in, or the user banned and the post reverted, and all the drama that follows lol An official mod repo would have solved these problems a long time ago.

[mauvebic]

There, I clarified your position for you.

Me as a leftist. How times have changed.

Last I checked, free markets and competition were right wing values, but whatever. Ultimately, right wing or left, things that work work, and things that don't don't.

Why don't you go whine to the people at Minecraft for not letting your buddy see their code, much less demand that his changes are made part of the core engine?

I really don't get the minecraft reference.

[prestidigitator]

All your criticism seems like you are just angry that your pull request wasnt merged.

Actually no. What I found incredibly disappointing was the response, not the lack of a merge.

[hdastwb]

Whoa, I feel kind of sorry for re-opening this topic now…

The way I see it, people have every right to stop maintaining something that they do in their spare time for no pay. And, they have every right to stop hosting their own code as well. Blanking posts is a bit extreme; I think that it would be more tactful to add a tag at the bottom explaining that they no longer plan on maintaining their things and their reasons for backing out of the community, but I am neither the developer of any significant mods, nor am I planning on leaving the project abruptly, nor am I a forum moderator.

Though, I should think that this shouldn't be too much of a problem. It is my understanding that most of the mods in question had free licenses and were fairly popular, thus I find it hard to believe that the code is gone when so many people have it installed on their computers. I also have a hard time believing that their posts are gone for good; can't the moderators fish them out of a site backup if they really want them back, or am I just spoiled by my exposure to version control software? If the posts really are lost, is there any particular barrier to amending the forum so that it archives posts when they are edited?

I think that pulling continued development on a mod is enough to effectively kill it if there is no-one that is able to fill one's shoes and continue development on it; the game (and, especially, engine) are still far from the release stage anyway, so the mod will inevitably get obsoleted comparatively quickly. At least, this has been my experience with the old carts mod, a gems mod that I've tried, the oil mod, and the craft guide mod at one point.

[tinoesroho]

Whoa, I feel kind of sorry for re-opening this topic now…

The way I see it, people have every right to stop maintaining something that they do in their spare time for no pay. And, they have every right to stop hosting their own code as well. Blanking posts is a bit extreme; I think that it would be more tactful to add a tag at the bottom explaining that they no longer plan on maintaining their things and their reasons for backing out of the community, but I am neither the developer of any significant mods, nor am I planning on leaving the project abruptly, nor am I a forum moderator.

Though, I should think that this shouldn't be too much of a problem. It is my understanding that most of the mods in question had free licenses and were fairly popular, thus I find it hard to believe that the code is gone when so many people have it installed on their computers. I also have a hard time believing that their posts are gone for good; can't the moderators fish them out of a site backup if they really want them back, or am I just spoiled by my exposure to version control software? If the posts really are lost, is there any particular barrier to amending the forum so that it archives posts when they are edited?

I think that pulling continued development on a mod is enough to effectively kill it if there is no-one that is able to fill one's shoes and continue development on it; the game (and, especially, engine) are still far from the release stage anyway, so the mod will inevitably get obsoleted comparatively quickly. At least, this has been my experience with the old carts mod, a gems mod that I've tried, the oil mod, and the craft guide mod at one point.

Wasn't fully true of Cornernote's mods. He still provides downloads on his site, but no longer maintains it. Similar replacements have since been developed that bear astonishing similarity.

[mauvebic]

Well hopefully as this community grows it'll develop better mechanisms for handling disagreements and departures, so that conversations like this won't be necessary.

[tinoesroho]

It's called the ol' "Code's all yours, see ya" trick. I used to do that to members of boards I ran. :-)