FOSS gamedev and creative worlds

(taking the conversation out of the mapgen thread viewtopic.php?p=248379#p248379)

Sergey wrote:But if I fell that tree, not all its leaves will decay! Some of them will stay hanging in the air being connected to another pine! Amazing! There is no tree anymore, but "its" leaves changed their mind and deserted to another pine! That's all because leaves will not decay if there is pine tree no further than 4 block!

taikedz wrote:

Sergey wrote:Tree's leaves are tree's leaves.

That's not how this world works... there is no such thing as "a tree" that ties together multiple nodes into a single conceptual item. This is a voxel game. Each voxel node exists as an individual thing, this is the core nature of the game.

There are tree trunk nodes and tree leaf nodes arranged to look like a tree, that is all. There is no "tree" just "some nodes in a 3d space." When you remove a trunk node, you are just removing an individual node. No such thing as a tree to remove it from. Just a an independent node.

Sergey wrote:Simple array (in programming language). No tree — no leaves. Delete this array.

There was never an array in the first place, and I doubt there ever will be (an actual engine dev would have to assert that one themselves). Imagine an array for every. single. tree ever produced by the mapgen. Not efficient. But if you want to make that kind of mod yourself, you're welcome to do so. As you say - it's a Simple array.

Sergey wrote:You said that all blocks in game are individuals with independent behavior. But it is not true.

Yes it is.

Why leaves decay if there is tree trunk nearby? It means leaves depends on tree.

No they don't. There's an added script that runs at regular intervals on each leaf node. That script checks to see if there's a tree trunk node anywhere nearby. If there isn't, there's a randomized chance for the leaf to disappear.

Each leaf node runs this script from its own point of view. It's called the Active Block Modifier.

http://rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_ ... /abms.html

Just because a node is independent doesn't mean it can't have code to affect other nodes. On the contrary, this is exactly how the world works.

Why when you cut one block of papyrus, you cut them all? It means they are dependent.

No dependency. When you dig a papyrus node, that node has an added script that checks for additional papyrus leaves above. It's registered specifically against the node you dig.

That script runs from the point of view of the one single papyrus node. There's no such thing as a papyrus plant.

Why torch falls down if there no supporting block anymore? Again, dependence. Why does not it hang in the air like other blocks? (I have complained about it before)

Because it is registered as an attached node. Even if used for leaves, leaves would still be attached to eachother I would wager... and since it's implemented as a group, I expect, like everything else, there's an ABM that runs for it, or it is triggered depending on the an action on a specific neighbouring node. So. Still independent.

Read the modding manual. It will answer a lot of your questions and give you a better idea of how the game actually works.

* rubenwardy.com/minetest_modding_book/
* http://dev.minetest.net/Main_Page

What about entity lifetime ?
For example when I spawn moving entity it moves from me ~30 nodes and stops moving without any events rise.

Nyarg wrote:What about entity lifetime ?
For example when I spawn moving entity it moves from me ~30 nodes
and stops moving without any events rise.

It stops because it moves out of range.
The engine only updates blocks within a certain range around the player(s).

Try it out: follow it, and see if it still stops.

hajo wrote:The engine only updates blocks within a certain range around the player(s)

Is it possible increase updating range for player or another way to keep entity live ?

simple way: press r-key on keyboard or + several times to maximize view range and tame all animals within sight or give them individual name tags providing you have the right mods installed.

you could add to your mintest.conf by studying minetest.conf.example and playing with the values of

client_unload_unused_data_timeout =
client_mapblock_limit = -1
active_block_range =

and others.

twoelk wrote:or + several times to maximize view range

* 'Shift' and '=' otherwise will do nothing :)

twoelk wrote: r-key & studying minetest.conf.example & playing with the values

Done.

I am set all values (related in keywords "block" "object" "distance" etc) to 100 including active_object_send_range_blocks.

Now maximum distance is ~50 nodes then entity disappears (invisible) with rise on_static event.
After it I walk to disappear point and entity appears for me again with rise on_activate event so it seems like server (singleplayer) destroy one on disappear and creat again when I walk nearby.

I need in minimal 200 nodes for use my epicShips mod )

Now lifetime of entity seems:
entityCreat() - - - <on_activate with empty staticdata string> - - <on_static where we keep entity metadata in staticdata string> .....[server destroy one on distance] - - <on_static> ..... [server create entity when we nearby again with staticdata string filled previously] - - <on_activate>

Thank you, taikedz, for making separate topic. But you did not move all the posts about the subject :-)

Sergey wrote:Thank you, taikedz, for making separate topic. But you did not move all the posts about the subject :-)

I carried through just the most relevant to this direct response ;-)

Nyarg wrote:

twoelk wrote: r-key & studying minetest.conf.example & playing with the values

Done.

{ ... }

Now maximum distance is ~50 nodes then entity disappears (invisible) with rise on_static event.
After it I walk to disappear point and entity appears for me again with rise on_activate event so it seems like server (singleplayer) destroy one on disappear and creat again when I walk nearby.

I need in minimal 200 nodes for use my epicShips mod )

Now lifetime of entity seems:
entityCreat() - - - <on_activate with empty staticdata string> - - <on_static where we keep entity metadata in staticdata string> .....[server destroy one on distance] - - <on_static> ..... [server create entity when we nearby again with staticdata string filled previously] - - <on_activate>

Be careful with the active block range.

ABR = 1 --> one block (16x16x16 fixed location of the map) runs ABMs and updates entities: the block the player is in
ABR = 2 --> the block the player is in, plus one above, one below, one to the side, one to the other side, one diagonally up and to the side etc..... this means 3x3x3 blocks will have ABMs run and entities active
ABR = 3 --> 5x5x5 blocks are active -- each block being 16x16x16, this is (5x5x5 x 16x16x16) nodes being processed.
ABR = 4 --> 7x7x7 blocks active

I wouldn't be surprised if you're also taxing your PC to heck. No idea what that'll do to managing the entities.

I'd say, don't raise the ABR to any more than 3 on a normal PC or server.

If you turn on full view range, this only affects your client - if someone far away changes a block you can see from afar, it won't update until you are near enough to it.

If you raise the max_simultaneous_block_sends_per_client and max_simultaneous_block_sends_server_total you could increase ranges, at the cost of a hack of a lot of network traffic. In singleplayer mode, this will again start chewing your processor.

Full view range, as far as I can gather, is useful for viewing large builds, but is not meant to cater for moving/changing things like players and mobs.

This is a voxel game, not a city simulator. {Player far away = mobs don't move} is totally normal.

Nyarg wrote:I am set all values (related in keywords "block" "object" "distance" etc) to 100 including active_object_send_range_blocks.

Bad idea. You'll crash your game. Perhaps even your PC.

Indeed these settings named with 'blocks' are in units of 16 nodes, a block is a 16 node cube.

Active block range was 2 (32 nodes) now in dev it has been raised to 3 (48 nodes) but this also defines how large an area ABMs run in, and ABMs are intensive, especially leafdecay.

As for linking leaf nodes to their parent trunk, the idea has been suggested before but is over-complex and was only for a tree-capitator type mod. The fact that leaves will not decay if they are within 3 nodes of another tree's trunk is not remotely a problem and we would never do something complex to 'fix' this. Sergey you have the wrong approach to Minetest, the reason it works so well is because it has been kept simple and unrealistic, there are plenty of photo-realistic games you can play instead.

> […] the reason it works so well is because it has been kept simple and unrealistic […]

minetest doesn't work well for me, for comparison, in sauerbraten l get > 100 fps with reflection, bumpmap, shadows, etc. enabled, whereas in minetest my fps count is often < 30, there are no reflections and shadows

I think the "works well" meant the game design and extensibility.

But on performance I generally get something around 60fps which it is capped at (check fps_max in minetest.conf)

Also they Cube 2 Sauerbraten is based on a completely different rendering engine, any differences could be down to Irrlicht itself, so not really a properly fair comparison.... details details but worth noting.

Hybrid Dog wrote:> […] the reason it works so well is because it has been kept simple and unrealistic […]

minetest doesn't work well for me, for comparison, in sauerbraten l get > 100 fps with reflection, bumpmap, shadows, etc. enabled, whereas in minetest my fps count is often < 30, there are no reflections and shadows

Have to agree... I get some pretty good reflection and shadows from my sauerbraten as well :D


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerbraten

taikedz wrote:There is no tree, Neo

Too late. Matrix has us.

TumeniNodes wrote:

Hybrid Dog wrote:> […] the reason it works so well is because it has been kept simple and unrealistic […]

minetest doesn't work well for me, for comparison, in sauerbraten l get > 100 fps with reflection, bumpmap, shadows, etc. enabled, whereas in minetest my fps count is often < 30, there are no reflections and shadows

Have to agree... I get some pretty good reflection and shadows from my sauerbraten as well :D


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauerbraten

Looks good to me xD
It'd be nice if minetest could have graphics like Cube 2 though

Nyarg wrote:Now maximum distance is ~50 nodes then entity disappears (invisible) with rise on_static event.
After it I walk to disappear point and entity appears for me again with rise on_activate event so it seems like server (singleplayer) destroy one on disappear and creat again when I walk nearby.

I think the settings you are looking for is active_object_send_range_blocks and active_block_range so those to 4 or 5 and you should at least get 50 nodes in every direction of active blocks and active objects (entities). You'll probably also want to increase max_block_send_distance to match whatever your active object range is.

D00Med wrote:Looks good to me xD
It'd be nice if minetest could have graphics like Cube 2 though

Honestly, my feelings are, "yes" but..., only as far as the water and trees.
Although... such trees would look very out of place in MT but, I definitely would love to see some more advanced look to trees... NBTrees has definitely done much for the leaves... I have been messing with adding nodebox branches of about 3-4 variable sizes and then figuring the best way in which to arrange leaves among them.

I also feel (just my own opinion) when you chop a tree, the entire tree should just be removed, leaves and all. As it would do were it an .obj, and it could still drop cubic tree trunks for crafts and fuel etc. And you would still have your tree nodes to use for building, etc. as well
This would eliminate the need for leaf decay in the first place.

Most who have issues with leaf decay, it is due to something regarding "realism". Well, when you cut a tree down, the leaves don't hang in the air and decay slowly... they come down with the tree.... some even end up falling on your head.... and in the neighbors pool..... : /

But... how I know this is not important.... What is important is... "why have leaf decay in the first place?" unless associated with seasons, or a dying tree, or bush, etc..

Just make trees an obj, keep the squared trunks but add some branches, give them a better leaf arrangement and do away with leaf decay altogether... ; )

Trees should also be made quite a bit taller as well. Mature trees where I live are no less than two stories tall or more, and not 7-8 ft tall.
Granted I understand the default tree is actually an apple tree and the height is somewhat close...

The water though... yes... definitely would be a huge advance in MT which I think many would love. I've thought about hunting over at the Irrlicht forums, as well as some openGL/GLSL forums, etc. for a sucker... um, I mean volunteer to see what they might be able to do.
Working with GLSL shaders definitely requires an individual who is experienced..., it's like witchcraft and wizardry, that stuff.

But those are about the only two areas I would like to see a wee bit more realism added... but, just enough, not too much.

But I fear I have strayed a bit off topic.... sorry.

edit> I also fear the whole "fps" issue in MT is.., well, what it is at this point... because it appears to me that in order to truly address the main issues would require a complete tear down and rebuild of the MT engine from the ground up.... and "who" exactly is going to do that????
I think it would require someone with an awful lot of free time, and even more patience

I'm quite content with the fps on my end... it runs anywhere from 60-30 depending on the settings each time... I've even gotten 70+ at times
huge clusters of Jungle trees seem to cause a drop for me but in my perfect little MT world... I have simply removed them altogether : )

Try to think of the things Sauerbraten doesn't have though when comparing it to the fps in MT. Especially the fact it is 2 different 3d engines.
I'm sure if you use edit mode and create a similar map with all the fixins as in MT, (similar amount of trees, 3d mapgenerator, same size map, so on... the fps in Sauerbraten might take a dip as well?

TumeniNodes wrote:Honestly, my feelings are, "yes" but..., only as far as the water and trees.
Although... such trees would look very out of place in MT

I'm fine with the look of trees as they are. If you consider what happens when you add the homedecor modpack, you get comparitively high-detail items amongst high-pixelation items..... it doesn't make sense.

TumeniNodes wrote:I also feel (just my own opinion) when you chop a tree, the entire tree should just be removed, leaves and all. As it would do were it an .obj, and it could still drop cubic tree trunks for crafts and fuel etc.

I am not convinced having a single large .obj in place of a set of nodes would be the correct way of going about things. Re the looks and homedecor argument for one.... and then why have voxels at all once we start making exceptions for trees? I mean surely the water shouldn't depend just on cubes, water isn't cubic.... and maybe hills should be generated with slopes instead of plain blocks... why is sand in blocks instead of heaps.... can we have this that an t'other behaving "more realistically" .... starts to snowball.

TumeniNodes wrote:Most who have issues with leaf decay, it is due to something regarding "realism". Well, when you cut a tree down, the leaves don't hang in the air and decay slowly... they come down with the tree.... some even end up falling on your head.... and in the neighbors pool..... : /

Yep. And if you want realisim, maybe you should be playing Skyrim or Monster Hunter Tri - I hear there's a good crafting system in each of those ;-)

TumeniNodes wrote:Just make trees an obj, keep the squared trunks but add some branches, give them a better leaf arrangement and do away with leaf decay altogether... ; )

Trees should also be made quite a bit taller as well. Mature trees where I live are no less than two stories tall or more, and not 7-8 ft tall.
Granted I understand the default tree is actually an apple tree and the height is somewhat close...

... I will just say again what I put in the title: There is no tree.

I think arguably you could do a mapgen modification mod, probably to bundle in a subgame, such that it might be able to replace the current L-Trees generation algorithms simply with obj files and have a test with how that goes...

I'm not sure why people are so bothered with the "realism" factor in such an obvious pastiche of said reality..... Do we complain when cartoon characters walk in midair and survive 16-ton weights? Why not suspend disbelief in a game? What's the *actual* contention?

TumeniNodes wrote:The water though... yes... definitely would be a huge advance in MT which I think many would love.

I've already said my piece on cascading requests for realism ;-)

TumeniNodes wrote:I also fear the whole "fps" issue in MT is.., well, what it is at this point... because it appears to me that in order to truly address the main issues would require a complete tear down and rebuild of the MT engine from the ground up.... and "who" exactly is going to do that????
I think it would require someone with an awful lot of free time, and even more patience

I'm quite content with the fps on my end... it runs anywhere from 60-30 depending on the settings each time... I've even gotten 70+ at times
huge clusters of Jungle trees seem to cause a drop for me but in my perfect little MT world... I have simply removed them altogether : )

I must ask, engine comparisons aside, why the obsession with getting more than 40-odd fps ?

I mean, if you were routinely getting less than 24, or if the FPS rate against your monitor's drawing rates is causing visible stuttering or tear, yeah there's a massive issue.... but aside from "i wants me moar fps plz", is any particular reason there's a concern here?

For reference http://www.polygon.com/2014/6/5/5761780/frame-rate-resolution-graphics-primer-ps4-xbox-one

I also play/like cube2, but it has a pretty cheesy artstyle.

taikedz wrote:I'm fine with the look of trees as they are. If you consider what happens when you add the homedecor modpack, you get comparitively high-detail items amongst high-pixelation items..... it doesn't make sense.

I won't go over all the replies.

To make it clear, I think MT is awesome. There really is nothing quite like it, (yes, I mean even MC)

And actually, I even just tinkered around with terasology earlier this evening for the first time and... even though it is still extremely in it's infancy.... I am not "blown away" by it at all. I don't want to trash talk it but, just not impressed... I think all the vids, and screenies I've seen for it must have something I do not because I definitely did not get the same visual those show.

But, moving onto our discussion.
As stated, I love MT. I think it's great.
And there are so many reasons it is unique... The community is the biggest piece.

Then add in the fact there is so much one can do with it... going into various areas whether working on mods (both creative and for in-game) (I am solely a creative user)

Oddly enough atm, I actually find it hard to think of where to begin regarding how many different things MT can be for any one user. (I'm tired) :P

Since I first installed MT I began messing with textures, then mods, etc.., I've made obj models for trees, d/l some from free modeling sites, even tinkered with cg-decor mod's idea for trees as well as the Epic demo....

Some seemed really awesome at first... then the attraction wore off and I go back to the default style of trees... then nodeboxtrees came along (which I really like)... and just recently I have been messing with different ways to add some diff styles of branches to see how it looks..., making trees taller, different ways to apply the leaves.

But After all I have done with trees... I have been happy with the square trunks now.
Sometimes, it takes trial and error... and a whole lot of wasted time :P to realize what was there, was already... "perfect"... but then that bug still bites... so you begin to experiment from a totally different perspective.

^ and that right there is yet another perfect example of why MT is so awesome : D

Reflective water??? well.... a lot of users want that, actually... but... time will tell. Honestly, I think it won't be too much longer before someone comes along and gives us all something awesome related to that. (fingers crossed)

And, I'm perfectly happy with my fps 98% of the time.... except when I go flying around with max view on so I can load as much of the map as I can to view simply because I like to.
It's sort of a relief therapy to be able to view the "perfect" little world I have created for myself by literally chopping MT up into bits :P, it takes me away from the stresses of the real world for a while and actually produces a calming effect...

As far as I know 30-40 fps is the most common (and should be fine). The only time I tend to get extremely slightly annoyed is when I encounter stuttering... at which point I go in and change my settings from mapgen 31,000 to about 2,000 and view from 400 to 200 :P stuff like that.

I think most people really wish to run at 100fps with the whole chabang turned on and up to max... and often new comers tend to be annoyed by this... often coming from MC (which I cannot understand as MC tends to lag at full throttle as well)

And just tonight in terasology... with all turned down or off, I ran about 11-12 fps o_0

I think some people get uptight when someone creates a mod which they feel does not fit into MT but, tend to lose sight of the fact that... if they don't like it, just don;t use it... it really is that simple.
No one is ever going to be able to please everyone in the MT world... and no one should even try nor ever expect to.
the "perfect" MT comes down to individual tastes... and that is what is so great... so many people with individual tastes... creating stuff some will like, some won't but... if you don't, just wait... eventually someone will come along and create something you do like or.... try to create it for yourself... there are always plenty of others with similar tastes who may even offer to help in many ways.

But we often see here, those who come from MC... and are expecting a completely free (as in free buffalo wings) version of MC, and become instantly disenchanted and even irate it is not.
And then I have even seen a couple actually become almost demanding or highly critical.

Some here, work and plug away to make MT as MC-ish as they possibly can... and that's ok too... Who's to say it's not?
I do tend to see a lot of MC hang-up here though... but not being an actual "gamer" I'm not able to identify with that. I do know that I have watch my kid play MC and I actually do not see what exactly makes it so much greater than MT?
When I consider the $$$ which has gone into MC dev, and how much it costs to purchase... in my view... MT has it whipped... and continues to grow and expand.

Although I have to say... I do believe at some time... (not in the near future) things may stagnate... and someone is going to need to start plucking away with Irrlicht, itself (I'm not saying no one does but... it will be required on a larger scale)
I don't know if any code has been pushed upstream to Irrlicht from the development of the MT engine so... But I imagine eventually... it will happen or will need to happen.

Anyway, hope I didn't get my earlier (very long post) (followed by yet another very long post) put across the wrong way

For me... I simply keep plugging away at pulling parts of MT I do not use out..., tinkering with various aspects, and playing with mapgen... creating my very own "perfect Minetest" and along the way, if I create something I think other's might like... I just share it.
But I also try to follow What's going on in the areas I don't use (such as gaming aspects) to see if something might catch my interest, or get some ideas, or... what ever... I also follow items about what some people don't like or issues they have etc...

Minetest definitely has a diverse community/audience... here... just imagine how many more different visions out there who don't visit the forums?? : o
I think this community is really something.

Sure there is bickering here and there, and there were a couple I followed here before I really started posting etc... whom I really thought it would be nice to "meet" (via here) and ask questions and learn some things and sadly they were gone before I actually got the chance, and it's weird but, you get this feeling of loss, for someone you never even met or got to interact with, just based on some work they did here or something....

So... I go on like this looking at the title... "How Minetest actually works" well...., this is how it actually works.... It's all the code..., the hard work of others..., the fact it was created by someone who shared it and now is probably stunned by how it has grown so much since... the community... the creativity and imagination of others... people who think nothing of offering to help other people to work stuff out, etc....
Just a lot of give and take... a lot of talent and skill... and a lot of fun.

I think if someone wants something which is not yet available... they should either try to do it themselves, or ask very politely for others to do it (if it interests them enough) or nag till it happens :D (that last one doesn't work so well)

But I get slightly annoyed sometimes when I see someone start actually become negatively critical if something does not work to their liking or to how MC does this and that....

I think this stems from my deep dislike of Microsoft and the fact they now own "Minecraft". This, in my mind, turned MC into the "windows" of the gaming world :P
I always felt the windows theme should be "the Imperial March" from the original Star Wars movie... :?|

kaadmy wrote:I also play/like cube2, but it has a pretty cheesy artstyle.

Yes... yes it does.

Although..., there is actually quite a bit of good/decent graphics buried in there.... it's just the way it is mangled... erhem... I mean "presented" by the Cube2 engine.

BrandonReese wrote:I think the settings you are

Thank again. Now I found what went wrong !!!
This settings aditionally need client (not even creating new world) be restarted !
Wow now my entities stay visible really FARrrrrr ! MUAHAHAHA

taikedz wrote:I mean, if you were routinely getting less than 24, or if the FPS rate against your monitor's drawing rates is causing visible stuttering or tear, yeah there's a massive issue.... but aside from "i wants me moar fps plz", is any particular reason there's a concern here?

I don't want more FPS, but view range is important for me because the game feels much better with a view range of 250 than with a view range of 100.

Gronkh, the biggest german let's player, called himself a landscape whore. Not only in Minecraft, but also in other games, he wants to expose each corner of the map. Currently he plays Minecraft with the "Life in the woods" modpack. And it is just impressive how many biomes can be discovered, how many buildings are spread around the map, how many trees and plants etc.

Minetest is good for creative players who wants to build their own world. They need a plain, flat map and hundreds or thousands of building nodes. But it has not much for survival players who wants to discover the map

I don't need realistic trees, but I would expect more than 5 different trees, I don't expect realistic farming, but I would expect more than two crops, I don't need ultra realistic landscapes, but I want to see more than just a few biomes and strange mountains

And by the way, I like Sauerbraten. Both the dish and the game ;-)

TumeniNodes wrote:I think some people get uptight when someone creates a mod which they feel does not fit into MT but, tend to lose sight of the fact that... if they don't like it, just don;t use it... it really is that simple.

If you followed the conversation, the player has been asking "why" and "it shouldn't be that way" and saying "it's simply a matter of deleting an array where the tree is".

I've never said there should not be a mod that offers tree-based arrays - I have though questioned how processor-efficient and database-efficient it would be.

No one is ever going to be able to please everyone in the MT world... and no one should even try nor ever expect to.

Indeed, but to be able to start making thing, it is good to actually read up on how things currently work so as to be able to shape things in future. I have provided links and invited to do so, it is up to them to follow up.

the "perfect" MT comes down to individual tastes... and that is what is so great... so many people with individual tastes... creating stuff some will like, some won't but... if you don't, just wait... eventually someone will come along and create something you do like or.... try to create it for yourself... there are always plenty of others with similar tastes who may even offer to help in many ways.

Probably my jibes about wrong-shaped sand etc came across as too "conservative", but I stand my ground - just because of the lack of realism in the default minetest_game doesn't mean that there should be a de facto strive to it, which is what this player continually was getting at.

But yes,anyone is free to make The Game That Suits Them.

But naively saying things don't make sense, are silly, and should just change because they view it as easy, deserves no less than a detailed response as to "how things actually work."

TumeniNodes wrote:So... I go on like this looking at the title... "How Minetest actually works" well...., this is how it actually works.... It's all the code...

.... well, yes, my description is indeed how Minetest actually works.... or maybe more specifically, how the default `minetest_game` actually works, with regards to strucutres tht are composed of several blocks, most notably trees. But until specified otherwise, pretty much all other subgames and mods use the same principle, and I was answering a very specific question so... Not sure what your object was here.

As for the community, it's very vibrant, that is for sure, and you rigthtly point out that there's enough talent out there to pretty much bend a lot of the game to their liking...

My own responses however are to a particular user's incorrect assumptions, and their claims that things "should" be some other way, that it's "simply" a matter of doing it slightly (not really, in actual fact) differently.

There are things that are indeed to do with the core engine - water rendering particularly is not likely to be mod-level - but many things, including trees, could be done with a mod to replace the mapgen. Which I have already aluded to.

Tumeninodes wrote: I think if someone wants something which is not yet available... they should either try to do it themselves, or ask very politely for others to do it (if it interests them enough) or nag till it happens :D (that last one doesn't work so well)

Case in point, nagging and telling people to do things differently and that their design "doesn't make sense" doesn't help with coaxing amicable responses.... ;-)

burli wrote:I don't want more FPS, but view range is important for me because the game feels much better with a view range of 250 than with a view range of 100.

I can imagine view range being much more important than FPS indeed, to builders.... we just don't really have the high-paced action requiring the more than 60 FPS...!

burli wrote:I don't need realistic trees, but I would expect more than 5 different trees, I don't expect realistic farming, but I would expect more than two crops, I don't need ultra realistic landscapes, but I want to see more than just a few biomes and strange mountains

The main point I guess is - are you commenting on the shortcomings of minetest_game, or just stating that you're likely to play with more mods rather than fewer...? ;-)

taikedz wrote:The main point I guess is - are you commenting on the shortcomings of minetest_game, or just stating that you're likely to play with more mods rather than fewer...? ;-)

No, I don't talk about MTG. Currently there is no subgame or mod that can give me just 10% of "Life in the woods". There is so much content, that all mods and subgames of Minetest together can't give me nearly that content. Most of the modders focus on building content, not on procedural generation.

burli - hmm not sure I follow you there....

Yes there are more mods focusing on content (nodes, tools, items, entities, added functionality, etc) than actual mapgen (which is what I guess you mean by procedural generation?)

But between ethereal, added plant mods, moretrees, farming_redo and crops, etc etc which all intgrate into map geenration, surely you can load variety?

Or did I miss the point?

taikedz wrote:Or did I miss the point?

Well, yes. With all the mods I still can't get what I want. But this topic goes off topic now