Website / wiki update - Lack of information

[pdvrosado]

I've spent some days now playing minetest, and it's quite awesome. It's not the same as minecraft, but it's still pretty awesome.

The only thing that bothers me is the lack of information on websites about it... I've been playing on a pvp server, and there are mobs. some strange ones that I've never seen before. I don't know if it is a result of a mod, or if it's part of the game.

I tried to search for minetest mobs on google, and I only found that violet shadow guy, dungeon master and a rat.

On the server I play, I see some strange yellow day walkers, that girl from the ring movie in the caves and mummies. Not to mention sheep in the hills and plains.

Is there a way to get detailed info about the items, structures, biomes, mobs, etc. Present in the game?

[hoodedice]

Type /mods in the in-game chat to find the list of mods used by the server.

Also, welcome to Minetest!

[Dopium]

That is because people edit original mods for their servers, really it is more up to the server host to list in the servers section of the forum. The wiki is more an overview of the vanilla game, features and changelogs as is the description on the main website.

Mobs are not default and are mods, so you will not find information about them on wiki but rather the mod sections. If you type /mods in chat on a server it will list the mods used on that server. From there you can search the mod name finding the mod that will most likely have a description of the content.

[pdvrosado]

Humm I see, the mobs are pretty cool. The AI is quite dumb in some aspects, but still, they look good. Is there any way to implement the mobs directly in the game? A game full of features is a game full of bugs, but all these mods would be great and a good adiction if they could be added to the main game :)

[Sokomine]

From your description, the mobs you encountered might be from the simple mobs mod. Another mobs mod with far more animals and functionality is mobf. The later one is seldom found on servers but great for singleplayer. You can distinguish the two by right-clicking on a sheep: If it gives wool, it is simple mobs; if not (=i.e. you need to wield sheers), it is mobf.

On the server I play, I see some strange yellow day walkers, that girl from the ring movie in the caves and mummies. Not to mention sheep in the hills and plains.

The yellow guys will most likely be sand mobs. They have relatives that consist of dirt or stone as well. And deep down in caves, there might be very hostile dungeon masters who shoot fireballs at you.
Mummies - if found in pyramids - might be from the pyramids mod.

Is there a way to get detailed info about the items, structures, biomes, mobs, etc. Present in the game?

Most servers do have some sort of craft guide installed where you can find all items and their reciepes.

[pdvrosado]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

[hoodedice]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

The game engine and vanilla game aims to be lightweight, portable and bugfree. So, mobs are not included, which have all three properties.

[rubenwardy]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

All content such as blocks?, tools, craftitems, etc, is added using mods. The game comes with a pre-installed bunch of mods called minetest_game. If you deleted that the game world would be a vacuum.

The craft guide will probably never be added to the engine (minetest executable, c++ code) but might be included in minetest_game in the future.

Mobs will never be added to the engine, but an api might be added. Mobs would be created in mods using this API .

[Evergreen]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

Okay, one reason is because entities are still incredibly buggy(which are what create mobs). Another reason is they aren't very lightweight, and they aren't very stable either. Still, welcome to Minetest! I hope you enjoy your stay.

[hoodedice]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

Okay, one reason is because entities are still incredibly buggy(which are what create mobs). Another reason is they aren't very lightweight, and they aren't very stable either. Still, welcome to Minetest! I hope you enjoy your stay.

Evergreen, that is exactly what I said.

[PilzAdam]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

There is no content at all in the Minetest engine. What you refer to as "the game" is actually called minetest_game, which is only one of several games that run on the Minetest engine (it just happens to be shipped by default with the engine).

[hoodedice]

thanks :) but what about adding them to the game instead of making it just a mod?

There is no content at all in the Minetest engine. What you refer to as "the game" is actually called minetest_game, which is only one of several games that run on the Minetest engine (it just happens to be shipped by default with the engine).

Sorry, want me to delete it? :P

Now look! You quoted the wrong thing!

[pdvrosado]

Ok, what about all mods being loaded and added into the game by default? for example, you can have linux with any kind of desktop you want. So why can't all mods be added by default (instead of having a tab to choose the ones who work), but the game itself is left intact? most people have different mods, this would be a way of improving mods in teh same way though feedback and uniformising all mods on the game or all game content.

[Dopium]

Ok, what about all mods being loaded and added into the game by default? for example, you can have linux with any kind of desktop you want. So why can't all mods be added by default (instead of having a tab to choose the ones who work), but the game itself is left intact? most people have different mods, this would be a way of improving mods in teh same way though feedback and uniformising all mods on the game or all game content.

Personally i think there is way too many mods and cant possibly add them all to the mods directory as default. Adding selected mods to be used for default will probably start a fight on Minetest about who's mod's should be added so i doubt that would work either.

Alot of mods will conflict so are useless with others and active mods still receive updates. It really is easier and less of a PITA to just download and add the mods you want.

Having said that there is a download manager in the mods tab

[SegFault22]

Ok, what about all mods being loaded and added into the game by default? for example, you can have linux with any kind of desktop you want. So why can't all mods be added by default (instead of having a tab to choose the ones who work), but the game itself is left intact? most people have different mods, this would be a way of improving mods in teh same way though feedback and uniformising all mods on the game or all game content.

Personally i think there is way too many mods and cant possibly add them all to the mods directory as default. Adding selected mods to be used for default will probably start a fight on Minetest about who's mod's should be added so i doubt that would work either.

Alot of mods will conflict so are useless with others and active mods still receive updates. It really is easier and less of a PITA to just download and add the mods you want.

Having said that there is a download manager in the mods tab

I think he means that, when a mod is tossed into the folder, it is enabled by default. Not that it should download all mods and install them.

[Pitriss]

Still this can't be done due to conflicting mods.

[Dopium]

Ok, what about all mods being loaded and added into the game by default? for example, you can have linux with any kind of desktop you want. So why can't all mods be added by default (instead of having a tab to choose the ones who work), but the game itself is left intact? most people have different mods, this would be a way of improving mods in teh same way though feedback and uniformising all mods on the game or all game content.

Personally i think there is way too many mods and cant possibly add them all to the mods directory as default. Adding selected mods to be used for default will probably start a fight on Minetest about who's mod's should be added so i doubt that would work either.

Alot of mods will conflict so are useless with others and active mods still receive updates. It really is easier and less of a PITA to just download and add the mods you want.

Having said that there is a download manager in the mods tab

I think he means that, when a mod is tossed into the folder, it is enabled by default. Not that it should download all mods and install them.

I thought he meant more along the lines of downloading a minetest build with all the mods added so you can activate the ones you want for a map and don't have to search or install them.

[pdvrosado]

Personally i think there is way too many mods and cant possibly add them all to the mods directory as default. Adding selected mods to be used for default will probably start a fight on Minetest about who's mod's should be added so i doubt that would work either.

Alot of mods will conflict so are useless with others and active mods still receive updates. It really is easier and less of a PITA to just download and add the mods you want.

Having said that there is a download manager in the mods tab

I think he means that, when a mod is tossed into the folder, it is enabled by default. Not that it should download all mods and install them.

I thought he meant more along the lines of downloading a minetest build with all the mods added so you can activate the ones you want for a map and don't have to search or install them.

It's more like that, yeah. The game core is updated apart from the mods, but the mods are all enabled by default and come with the game itself. The problem of the bugs and stability could be solved by having two branches:

Minetest stable or current + stable mods (stable mods chosen and voted by the community to integrate the game - all of them count as only 1 big mod)

Minetest stable + beta mods (the stable minetest but with a big mod of a whole set of new features still fresh and buggy).

This way the game core would still be the same and could be developed to correct bugs (stable version) and the mods could be developed without affecting the game itself (I do not take the beta/development version of the game core into account, I don't know if there is another version besides the current stable)

[twoelk]

I fear Minetest is not designed, created and build the way you think.

You may not have noticed but there may very well be hundreds of mods. Check this page http://servers.minetest.net/ and hover with the mouse over the entries in the "Version, Gameid, MapGen" column to see the mod collections used on different servers.

A game with all mods would take very long to load, even in singleplayer, would lag a lot and have multiple conflicting issues. That is if creating such a collection is possible at all, which I doubt as not all mods are stored in a single place, not all are on Github. I don't believe creating a list with all mods is an easy task let alone a list with only those that work with the most recent build of Minetest, not to speak of all the forks created in the past.

Besides that some mods are designed for speciall games such as those present on the "King-Arthur's Land" server or those included in "mod collections" (aka "Minetest Games") Realtest, Eden or OCD.

Some mods try to solve the same problem such as those containing Crafting Guides, you would have to know which mods don't work well together. There is no database with such information.

[SegFault22]

Yeah, there are many different mods that can change things in different ways. One might make desert stone drop the mod's variant of "desert cobblestone", while another mod could do the same thing or make it drop something else.

However, we could make a launcher-device, similar to Minecraft's Tekkit/Technic or FTB, which has pre-built mod-packs that can be downloaded and played relatively easily. And since all mods in Minetest aren't commercialized or for-profit in any way, nobody would get angry about their mods being put into a pack like that, unless they are just ignorant (or stupid) and don't understand that it actually makes their mod more popular.

[Novacain]

nobody would get angry about their mods being put into a pack like that, unless they are just ignorant (or stupid) and don't understand that it actually makes their mod more popular.

unless there is zero credit... or they don't undterstand the DWTFYW Public license they published it as.

[Dopium]

The fight/"angry" part i was talking about is rather everyone WANTS their mod included in the pack NOT they will dislike it. Seems to be continuous miss communication going on here.

[pdvrosado]

Im just saying that a game is developed by a community of developers and fans, and the game must follow a direction. The game can't just be a sandbox forever and be left behind in terms of updates in gameplay itself.

A community driven game is something that brings more fans, users, players and developers, so building more than just a sandbox game could be a key to the survival of an open-source game. How many games and programs have I seen got left behind because they weren't updated in years and people just said: oh fuck it? (not to mention not open-source games, payed games that failed because developers weren't paying attention to the game community).

The point is, the engine itself should be updated like it has been so far (physics and bug correction), but there should be more development of big mods instead of lots of mods. 1st, to end game segregation and having a lot of stuff that doesn't work at all or can't work alongside, and 2nd to bring a closer feel to the game as a whole game. It's hard to define the identity of something if there is no identity at all, just a bunch of characteristics and traits put in together.

Minetest can be a lot more than Minecraft ever was, just needs a proper direction of its own, instead of just adding stuff atop one another.

I'm a psychologist, not a game developer. I understand how people / groups work, and mostly, organizations themselves, so this is a executive / consumer approach point of view. I'm here not to criticize, but to give feedback on what I think of a game that I really enjoy and that I do not want to see lost in an old repo because the community just said: oh fuck it! to the game...

[Evergreen]

Im just saying that a game is developed by a community of developers and fans, and the game must follow a direction. The game can't just be a sandbox forever and be left behind in terms of updates in gameplay itself.

A community driven game is something that brings more fans, users, players and developers, so building more than just a sandbox game could be a key to the survival of an open-source game. How many games and programs have I seen got left behind because they weren't updated in years and people just said: oh fuck it? (not to mention not open-source games, payed games that failed because developers weren't paying attention to the game community).

The point is, the engine itself should be updated like it has been so far (physics and bug correction), but there should be more development of big mods instead of lots of mods. 1st, to end game segregation and having a lot of stuff that doesn't work at all or can't work alongside, and 2nd to bring a closer feel to the game as a whole game. It's hard to define the identity of something if there is no identity at all, just a bunch of characteristics and traits put in together.

Minetest can be a lot more than Minecraft ever was, just needs a proper direction of its own, instead of just adding stuff atop one another.

I'm a psychologist, not a game developer. I understand how people / groups work, and mostly, organizations themselves, so this is a executive / consumer approach point of view. I'm here not to criticize, but to give feedback on what I think of a game that I really enjoy and that I do not want to see lost in an old repo because the community just said: oh fuck it! to the game...

You are right. What the developers say though is "Let the communiry make the mods and extensions.". That is true, but it would be nice to have a more featureful engine as well as subgames.

[Pitriss]

I think you didn't get main point.. Point of minetest is AFAIK to provide engine with enough freedom to create any voxel game. This is already started and going in right direction. There are few limitations, but I hope they will be fixed in future.

Creating of games and mods is mostly based on community. And IMO it is good way. There is enough freedom to imagine something and start to code that. Especially if you publish it after coding so your mod/game can be inspiration or good addition for others.

Mods and games are already separate projects with own comunity around so you don't have any chance to control it from some centralized point. It is opensource so you can fork that mod, and take care about it.. But there is so many good mods and there is not possible to fork every good mod and maintain it to follow yor way.. Best what you can do is just pick some mods, modify them to fit your needs and create game from it.. There is no chance to force mod developers to follow some way which is controlled from some "central".

[pdvrosado]

I think you didn't get main point.. Point of minetest is AFAIK to provide engine with enough freedom to create any voxel game. This is already started and going in right direction. There are few limitations, but I hope they will be fixed in future.

Creating of games and mods is mostly based on community. And IMO it is good way. There is enough freedom to imagine something and start to code that. Especially if you publish it after coding so your mod/game can be inspiration or good addition for others.

Mods and games are already separate projects with own comunity around so you don't have any chance to control it from some centralized point. It is opensource so you can fork that mod, and take care about it.. But there is so many good mods and there is not possible to fork every good mod and maintain it to follow yor way.. Best what you can do is just pick some mods, modify them to fit your needs and create game from it.. There is no chance to force mod developers to follow some way which is controlled from some "central".

I do understand your point, but it is a known fact that the sum of individual efforts in terms of outputs in a project it's not nearly close to the result of the same number of individuals working together as a whole.

I'm just saying that whoever wants to fork on a version and give birth to other project, well good for them, but for the rest of the community, there should be a major incrementation of a single project driven by the community with updates chosen by the community. Having most of the community working on a single project uses less resources (human resources) and provides better feedback (on bugs, ideas, results, etc) than having every single one doing something on their own just because. Group effort results in cohesion and a well structured product. The mods will work as a whole, and implemented as a whole to allow incrementation and to allow them working well side by side without bugs since the beginning.

Why should we add mods when some can't work when other mods are installed? Just simply add them to the game as a feature... so the file size is big, so what? People play WOW and that crap is more than 15gb large. The game gets heavy! Then work on ways to make it less heavy without losing features!

I started this thread because there is little information about minetest on the official website. Well, the conclusion that I am getting is that there is little information, not because there is not enough people to help handling the site, but because the game itself has no identity. It's just a platform to make whatever you want out of it. But people sometimes forget that not everyone knows how to code or want to code, some people can help other ways, and other people just want to enjoy a good product to have some fun, and by having fun they will help spreading the product in terms of marketing.

From the name, to the title, to the features, all of that should take a distinct form to make a name for itself. How many games have gone through open-source clone like games to a whole different kind of game with a proper identity and less of a clone of some other game?

Think about it :)

[hoodedice]

Dafuq did my post go?

Anyway, http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491

Anything after that, and I'll come to your house and butcher you with a pickaxe.

[spoiler]Sarcasm. Some people need to be told.[/spoiler]

[pdvrosado]

Dafuq did my post go?

Anyway, http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491

Anything after that, and I'll come to your house and butcher you with a pickaxe.

[spoiler]Sarcasm. Some people need to be told.[/spoiler]

This is a mere academic discussion, to understand all points involved in this project. I don't know why does it bother you that much.

[hoodedice]

Dafuq did my post go?

Anyway, http://c55.me/blog/?p=1491

Anything after that, and I'll come to your house and butcher you with a pickaxe.

[spoiler]Sarcasm. Some people need to be told.[/spoiler]

This is a mere academic discussion, to understand all points involved in this project. I don't know why does it bother you that much.

Because all has been said and done, by the founder of this project. I don't see any point in continuing a debate on where we are headed. Want a more liberal approach? Talk to the guys at FreeMiner.

[Pitriss]

Because all has been said and done, by the founder of this project. I don't see any point in continuing a debate on where we are headed. Want a more liberal approach? Talk to the guys at FreeMiner.

Agree