Shadows and gloss.

[ABJ]

Hi all.
When everyone is talking about improved graphics, I'll share my own 2c here.
Over my experiences with various games, I've found that, despite all the bloom and glare and lens flare and the like modeled, the most graphically improving features seem to be dynamic shadows and gloss (am I using the correct term? I'm trying to not use advanced words.......). They add more quality in a hurry then anything else. So, I want to ask, can Minetest model just these two effects for a good performance? Even if not, can they be modeled? If it is impossible to get a good FPS ATM, I don't care, I just want these two modeled.
Also, BTW why is it that voxel games run so slow with the meagre graphics they have, as compared to anything else? I run Orbiter 2016 Space Flight Simulator with HUGE loads of maximum res level 19 textures for every single planet in the Solar system, TO BLOODY REAL LIFE SCALE, + max for everything else, for a good fps, but Minetest degrades so fast!

[MineYoshi]

Also, BTW why is it that voxel games run so slow with the meagre graphics they have, as compared to anything else? I run Orbiter 2016 Space Flight Simulator with HUGE loads of maximum res level 19 textures for every single planet in the Solar system, TO BLOODY REAL LIFE SCALE, + max for everything else, for a good fps, but Minetest degrades so fast!

Simply, the generation as well takes more performance (or that's what i think), also since everything isn't a ready 3d model as a ".obj" to load... You might expect a bit of lag as well, at least this is faster than MineCraft... So i'm happy and ok with this.

Also, we already have nice shaders and effects, but i think the only missing one probably is "shadows" and "gloss", would be nice that those shaders and effects be added, but i don't know to be sincerely...
And about FPS, i don't know too... But maybe if someone could make the shader runs faster and increase performance, maybe it can't give so much lag.

[SegFault22]

I believe there would need to be changes to the lighting system for this to work - first, the light from the sun made directional and varying throughout the day, possibly involving "hard" edges of shadows to be formed; second, reflection of light off of all surfaces depending on angle and intensity and reflectivity of the material, replacing the light spreading through the cave opening to nodes that aren't directly exposed to the sun while also causing surfaces like water and glass to appear bright/glossy at certain angles (water will have a choppy gloss because wind, but what about water in an enclosed space where there is no wind?). This would be the best implementation, better than shaders because it isn't throwing-out the lighting data from the server, rather it depends on lighting data from the server such as the angle of sunlight/moonlight at whatever time.

However, this would be very difficult to implement, requiring the entire lighting system to be completely overhauled, and once it is "finished" it will probably run very slow without a high-performance gaming computer system or a large PS3 cluster to run "it". Thus, if it is ever implemented this way, it should be configurable and disabled by default, possibly also involving configuration on the client-side to replace high-intensity calculations required for the "new method" with the same calculations used in the "old method" (display lighting the same as now, except when the server has the new system enabled, sunlight will still depend on the direction of the sun, only it won't have sharp-edged shadows and there will be no reflection)

[MineYoshi]

I believe there would need to be changes to the lighting system for this to work - first, the light from the sun made directional and varying throughout the day, possibly involving "hard" edges of shadows to be formed; second, reflection of light off of all surfaces depending on angle and intensity and reflectivity of the material, replacing the light spreading through the cave opening to nodes that aren't directly exposed to the sun while also causing surfaces like water and glass to appear bright/glossy at certain angles (water will have a choppy gloss because wind, but what about water in an enclosed space where there is no wind?). This would be the best implementation, better than shaders because it isn't throwing-out the lighting data from the server, rather it depends on lighting data from the server such as the angle of sunlight/moonlight at whatever time.

However, this would be very difficult to implement, requiring the entire lighting system to be completely overhauled, and once it is "finished" it will probably run very slow without a high-performance gaming computer system or a large PS3 cluster to run "it". Thus, if it is ever implemented this way, it should be configurable and disabled by default, possibly also involving configuration on the client-side to replace high-intensity calculations required for the "new method" with the same calculations used in the "old method" (display lighting the same as now, except when the server has the new system enabled, sunlight will still depend on the direction of the sun, only it won't have sharp-edged shadows and there will be no reflection)

Change mostly things in graphic engine?
My idea is that how those "Seus" shaders work so good (with optifine of course :) ) in Minecraft... We have an idea of what should be changed, but how to make it more fast?

[ABJ]

How about just not making the water choppy? Even smooth water looks good 'nuff, and I say no color reflections, just light and sihoulettes. And ignoring the shadow blurring over distance, and just having a mixture of current and the proposed sunlight system where full sunlight is given directionally, and shadows are drawn on nodes, but then ambient lighting is treated the old way (pretend the node at the position half in - half out of the shadow has light level 15 and spread). You may not understand what I'm saying so feel free to ask.

[MineYoshi]

How about just not making the water choppy? Even smooth water looks good 'nuff, and I say no color reflections, just light and sihoulettes. And ignoring the shadow blurring over distance, and just having a mixture of current and the proposed sunlight system where full sunlight is given directionally, and shadows are drawn on nodes, but then ambient lighting is treated the old way (pretend the node at the position half in - half out of the shadow has light level 15 and spread). You may not understand what I'm saying so feel free to ask.

I would like to see the water like that too... The one from now is ok for me...

[ABJ]

By the way, I forgot to mention - shadows need to exist in the first place, meaning that they will be hard shapes of unlit regions on lit regions instead of just darkenings and lightnings.