[Discussion] Propery Ownership - Define Area

[RabbiBob]

Griefers
Greifers seem to be the biggest problem for administrators and builders and I had a random thought last night: a definable area comprised of x,y,z points that checks the player against the defined area and disables interaction if != permission within that space.

Define the space
Let's stick with rectangular\square geometry to make the calculations easier and define an area (8 pos points would be needed to defined two sides, then the two sides connected at the corner points).



So there is a space that is defined that has an interior (within the coords) and exterior (not within the coords).

Interior Permissions

If player interacts with the world, check to see if there is a defined space. If == permissions, than allow interaction, if != permissions, deny interaction. As I type this, perhaps check player coordinates and if !=, turn off interact is the simple approach.

Exterior Permissions

Unless an area has been defined, normal permissions given on the server are allowed. Only patrol the set areas. Maybe allow inversion (only build if set).

Drawbacks

• It may be intensive to keep checking player is at x,y,z (check for permissions), I'm not sure.
• A permission set to set the permissions would be needed and it would take more admin time to set areas (though less time fixing griefed areas).
• Knowing the boundaries - some way to see the boundaries would need to be done ("/show securearea" might change the display for the viewer (owner\admin) showing the area)
• Unsure if it would need to be at the engine level or if Lua could handle this.
• Could grief from above the structure (build up and around the perimeter, then put a lava block above)

...
This is conceptual and my main intention is to foster conversation over this and maybe come up with a workable solution that would work towards corralling griefers.. Any thoughts or comments on plausibility?

[sfan5]

Idea:
If you enter a protected Area, your interact privilege gets revoked
If you leave a protected Area, your interact privilege gets restored

[RabbiBob]

Right, that works better than what I was trying to translate it to words as I worked through it in my head.

[mauvebic]

The problem with node ownership is adding an extra field for every node defining who it belongs to. It worked great in activeworlds. But minetest would have to limit username lengths to keep the world databases slim-ish.

Another idea: do like torrents, keep a dig/place ratio on every player, players with high dig to place ratios are probably the griefers, so when they reach a certain ratio they get their interact privilidge suspended and told to contact a mod to get them back. sound like an idea?

Alternatively, we could have chunk ownership, with the ones around 0,0,0 being common areas, further loaded chunks would belong to those who caused them to be generated in the first place.

[RabbiBob]

I was purposely attempting to avoid tagging the node itself and instead using a coordinate based system to define the space which the nodes reside in. If you're within the space and have perms within the space, you can interact within the space.

If I continue with sfan's wording, the whole world would be unprotected and then if you wanted to build somewhere safely, contact an admin\mod, give them the area coordinates (or LxWxH) and they set up the protected space. You would then have that area until an admin removed the protection (or perhaps a self revoke mechanism). The downside is that I don't know how intensive this would be on the engine.

Rate limiting is an idea, but I can't see where a comfortable ratio could be agreed upon as builders lay down nodes as fast as they can click, but a griefer just needs to screw your project up with a few good adds or removals.

Good thoughts, I'll go read about AW, it's been years as I quit just as they were allowing self hosted servers for a fee.

[mauvebic]

Even by defining an area of ownership youd prolly have to have a place_node function that is called every time a node interact occurs in said area?

As for rate limiting, well if you look at youtube, griefers tend to dig 95% of the time, they dig all at once, they dig randomly, and they go from one end of the map to other doing the same. The trick would be to identify and single-out griefing patterns.

The idea would be to suspend a griefers' interact privileges instead of forcing everyone to ask for permission to build. TBH, i find the multiplayer aspect quite boring because of this.

[RabbiBob]

Even by defining an area of ownership youd prolly have to have a place_node function that is called every time a node interact occurs in said area?

Yes and that's what I fear would cause a performance impact on the server or engine.

As for rate limiting, well if you look at youtube, griefers tend to dig 95% of the time, they dig all at once, they dig randomly, and they go from one end of the map to other doing the same. The trick would be to identify and single-out griefing patterns.

The idea would be to suspend a griefers' interact privileges instead of forcing everyone to ask for permission to build. TBH, i find the multiplayer aspect quite boring because of this.

Hadn't realized that. Someone would have to be good at pattern sifting and I know it's not me (having replaced our anti-spam filtering device at work this past month, I know that limitation), but I can see where that approach would be helpful. I wonder even if the server alerted in some way.

I used to write log parsing programs for HalfLife engine games, maybe I should look at what output this engine has sometime and see if there is something to be dealt with there, though it would be after the fact.

[Death Dealer]

i wish Jachoo made his clan blocks and portals with inershia to work with the new dev 0.4. His fork is still awesome..

[sfan5]

i'm working on a mod for this.
I already have 170 Lines of Code, but it's not done yet

[RabbiBob]

Woah +1

[blue]

This is a good idea but what if someone decides to build with there friend? then they would need to get building rights for the protected area too? and later on someone else might decide to build with them? etc

really i think there should be a better way to track griefers on the server instead of putting up protected areas

[sfan5]

This will be in my Mod!

[wieszak]

Maybe instead of node-ownership make block-ownership? With simple rule - in unowned block anyone could interract with world, first interaction starts a counter for that user, if it reaches some threshold then this user is owner of block. He can add another players of his choice, or revoke them (or self).

Is any of this - nodeownership or blockownership, area ownership or anything else would be standard then check for this would go into C++ code and perfomation would not be affected. I think not everything should be done entirely in lua.

[sfan5]

Problem of node-ownership: Griefer builds Wall around house and you can't destroy it

[Death Dealer]

Problem of node-ownership: Griefer builds Wall around house and you can't destroy it

make privs for the right to section off an areas.

[mauvebic]

pattern sifting or security npcs?

[Jordach]

i have a good plan.

[sfan5]

What's your plan?

[Jordach]

Here's what I was thinking.

Using the new privs system, the server could give everyone player a 16 by 16 area to build in, however, if you go below -16, or above 16, the protection no longer works, and building in it can only be a priv for that player only.

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

Player 1 attempts to build in Player 2's space, the system will reject it, being as to build in that sector requires that priv, which is only accessible by, A) System Admins, B) Moderators, and C) Player 2

[sfan5]

Good Idea!

[Jordach]

One thing, Player 1 and 2 will always be told where they're chunk is on the server with the command, /private and to return to it: /back

[mauvebic]

kinda like generating a new "home" chunk for each new player?

I like the idea of having both private and public spaces on the same server. could fix alot of problems.

[sfan5]

Yep!

[Death Dealer]

thats so cool:D

[mauvebic]

then its a question of giving each new player their own priviledge like chunk-addr_interact; each private node would have their specific interact privi :-) and the public ones could be the default interact :-)

[Michael Eh?]

Only problem with this (which I heard also referred as Borderstones) you could prevent players fro a large areas of the server.

Since the database is split into 16x16x16 blocks, an user has to have a property stone in each 16x16x16 section to be able to claim it. The stone like locked chest which can be destroyed by DMs.

However, I can see this as a server side command for admins to protect an area like show build area. An admin would have to unlock an area to allow work. Still I would put restrictions on it's use.

[LolManKuba]

Idea:
If you enter a protected Area, your interact privilege gets revoked
If you leave a protected Area, your interact privilege gets restored

I had the almost same idea.

[LolManKuba]

I got an idea, when you build something only you can destroy it. and if you have a trusted friend say a command like /homefriend (there name) on.

[Jordach]

My idea of 16 cubed area for every player, you lost all interaction with any block, includes, doors, buttons, and so on.

This is why auto-allotcation would work, and, if I were to practice my griefing skills, I would probably find ways to improve it.

[LolManKuba]

Buy real estate for a low low price of 100,000,000,000 mese!