The game is too poorly optimized.

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duane
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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by duane » Fri Dec 04, 2015 15:07

rubenwardy wrote:I can't find any citations about the speed of the eye, one would be good.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate

Personally, I can barely see the difference between 30 frame and 60 frame video. Given how little real action there is in my minetest games, I don't see the point of anything beyond 15 fps, so I've no interest in optimizing. Others obviously feel differently.

[hikes up trousers] In my day, we had 1 frame... a minute. We had to change a big, glass slide every time something moved... and we LIKED it that way!
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by benrob0329 » Fri Dec 04, 2015 15:30

Minetest is poorly optimised, but I can get 60 fps on my low end laptop with shaders by using a LuaJIT and adjusting my settings (fps wanted and max fps).
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by rubenwardy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 15:33

Wikipedia is not a good citation - however I'll take a look later at what references it uses.
Last edited by rubenwardy on Fri Dec 04, 2015 22:02, edited 1 time in total.
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by duane » Fri Dec 04, 2015 15:40

rubenwardy wrote:Wikipedia is not a citation - however I'll take a look later at what references it uses.


https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/citation#Noun

Worked when I was in college. ; p
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by BrandonReese » Fri Dec 04, 2015 15:53

duane wrote:[hikes up trousers] In my day, we had 1 frame... a minute. We had to change a big, glass slide every time something moved... and we LIKED it that way!


I played Wolfenstein 3D on a 286 with the resolution reduced to the size of a postage stamp and we loved it!
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by kaadmy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 17:29

Between 20 and 60 fps in MT is a big difference.
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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by twoelk » Fri Dec 04, 2015 18:21

duane wrote:...

[hikes up trousers] In my day, we had 1 frame... a minute. We had to change a big, glass slide every time something moved... and we LIKED it that way!


well even Gertie the Dinosaur in 1914 had something like 16 or 18 fps or was it allready fantastic 24?
 

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Re: he game is too poorly optimized.

by rubenwardy » Fri Dec 04, 2015 22:05

It's not a good citation - a good citation would be a scientific paper. I do computer science at university and I wouldn't get any good marks for a Wikipedia citation.
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by Alienant1 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 16:55

I think that things start to look smooth at about 24 fps and then just keep getting better as you go higher. There must be an upper limit though.....

perhaps look at
https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/1vy3qe/how_many_frames_per_second_can_the_eye_see/
or
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Display_motion_blur

EDIT: actually, neither of these is properly scientific, so they aren't much use.
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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by sofar » Wed Dec 09, 2015 23:20

anecdotes are evidence... ;^)

Many of the games I played in the last 10 years were unable to get 60frames on my 30" short-response-time dell monitor, but when they started get better and my gfx cards upgraded to I was unable to accept anything less than max framerate. My biggest problem was playing oblivion/skyrim or even WoW(yikes) in 30fps was eye-tearing ugly due to the long walks through scenery where you felt like walking through a slide deck at your grandparents house - my eyes just never felt like 30fps was smooth, and I can easily visually perceive individual frame drops at 60Hz in most games. And it's disturbing to gameplay.

So, anything under 60Hz is a problem to my eyes.

Now, my panels are limited to 60Hz, so I could never compare my eye response to higher frames. That's a good thing, since those 30" 2560x1600 panels were muy expensive back when I got them in 2006...

bottom line is that developers should avoid to "corn-hole" all users into "this much FPS is plenty" and just allow users to change the sliders to any desirable value.

If someone wants 15fps, I could care less, have them at it. I sometimes play on a laptop and tune down the max FPS to those levels, since the panels on many laptops are low quality and have a long response time.

But when I buy a 4k monitor in the next few years, I expect to be able to play minetest at 120Hz if I so desire.

It's not even important what scientific evidence there may or may not be. If people desire to shell out 5000$ for a gaming rig that can do a bazillion fps, then why are we writing software that makes it hard for people to get a bazillion fps? Sooner or later, those exact users are the one that will help us fix performance bottlenecks and drive innovation and performance optimizations. At the other end, so are the current android users - they're doing the same thing at the *other* end - forcing gpu optimizations to lower cpu cycles and save battery time. All good stuff.
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by rubenwardy » Wed Dec 09, 2015 23:25

Anecdotes aren't usually real (scientific) evidence. (I guess you were joking)

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... /anecdotal
http://study.com/academy/lesson/anecdot ... mples.html

However, I agree that users should be able to uncap their FPS.

sofar wrote:then why are we writing software that makes it hard for people to get a bazillion fps?


Maybe because some of the problems are hard to compute?
 

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Re: The game is too poorly optimized.

by sofar » Wed Dec 09, 2015 23:40

rubenwardy wrote:Anecdotes aren't usually real (scientific) evidence. (I guess you were joking)

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/defin ... /anecdotal
http://study.com/academy/lesson/anecdot ... mples.html

However, I agree that users should be able to uncap their FPS.

sofar wrote:then why are we writing software that makes it hard for people to get a bazillion fps?


Maybe because some of the problems are hard to compute?


Yes, they indeed are, and indeed I was joking.

Plus, having fps caps hidden in the UI limits the chances that they will get solved severely.

http://4k.com/news/4k-tv-sales-to-surpa ... 2018-5948/

(Of course, 4k panels still only technically need to do 60Hz to be compliant, afaics)
 

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