[Mod][Merged] Valleys Mapgen [valleys_mapgen]

[Arcelmi]

I like this mod!

Good job!

[duane]

duane, i merged this PR https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3850 that affects mgvalleys.
I tested it and mgvalleys caves seem okay, but as i don't completely understand the code perhaps you could check this isn't subtly breaking something?

I can't see how it could harm anything, and the shape of the caves doesn't seem to be affected at all. Nice job.

[duane]

Love this mg. Are there any known issuse with other mods?

If you're running the built-in version in the latest minetest source, it's compatible with pretty much everything, but it doesn't give you the wider variety of trees and plants on its own. The lua code, downloadable here, adds lots of attractive features to the general terrain, but it won't work with anything that uses decorations, such as farming+.

[duane]

This map is really deadly. I spawned in a deasert biome, Trier to find The next tree, cut one block, made an axe and then I was attacked by sandmonster.

In another world i spawend in a snow biome and walked and walked and I starved before I found any food

If you want a little less challenge, you can always turn on the "cave stuff" option in the advanced options. The giant mushrooms are good for food and sticks, even in the harshest terrain, and you can usually find a cave anywhere. Just make sure the goblins don't get you.

[burli]

OK, now I need some explanations. There are two versions of valley mg, a Lua and a C++ version. I downloaded the current minetest code from github. Which version is there included?

And the valley_c helper is an add-on for the C++ version?

[duane]

OK, now I need some explanations. There are two versions of valley mg, a Lua and a C++ version. I downloaded the current minetest code from github. Which version is there included?

And the valley_c helper is an add-on for the C++ version?

The version of valleys included in the new minetest code is a classic mapgen coded in C++. All it does is create rock and water. Other minetest functions use the mapgen v7 biomes and the decoration system to put in more interesting nodes by default.

The original version of valleys, available here, not only generates terrain, but adds in plants, soil, etc. Its main disadvantages are that it's slower and incompatible with some other mods.

However, you can also use the drop-down mapgen with some other "mapgen" mods, such as ethereal, valleys_c, and this version of valleys. When you run the valleys mapgen in the minetest drop-down list and enable the lua mod you find here, the latter will adapt itself to add plants and other features to the terrain, but it still remains incompatible with some other mods.

There is no right or wrong way to run them. Some like one combination, some another.

[burli]

Ok, thx. I like the built in valley mapgen with the valley_c helper. Is the crops mod compatible whith that?

And what exactly adds the cave stuff option?

[duane]

Ok, thx. I like the built in valley mapgen with the valley_c helper. Is the crops mod compatible whith that?

And what exactly adds the cave stuff option?

I don't know of any mods off-hand that aren't compatible with valleys_c. The cave stuff option doesn't apply to it. It has cave stuff by default.

[burli]

Is it possible that the player always spawns near a forest biome? Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating

[duane]

Is it possible that the player always spawns near a forest biome? Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating

It might be possible, but it wouldn't be easy. There aren't any biomes in the lua version of Valleys -- things just grow where they grow. For the C version, you'd have to change the minetest code, and it's already pushing the reasonable limit of spawn retries. It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.

[paramat]

> Yesterday I spawned in a gras biome. Couldn't find a tree at the first day. Had to fly to find trees. That is to frustrating

This is a common complaint, the new biome system can have large biomes, the only solution is to try a few seeds when starting a new world. Or have an adventure and explore to find another biome. If you're 'unlucky' you may have to walk a few 1000 nodes, i see that as a nice excuse to travel and see the beautiful landscapes. Minecraft players may panic from the habit of rushing to make a house before night.

[paramat]

duane, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3727 we would like to sort out this issue soon so, are you keen to create a biosphere core mapgen? personally i'm not keen on the idea of having this as a core mapgen but it's only fair i ask other contributors before closing the issue.

[duane]

duane, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/3727 we would like to sort out this issue soon so, are you keen to create a biosphere core mapgen? personally i'm not keen on the idea of having this as a core mapgen but it's only fair i ask other contributors before closing the issue.

I wouldn't even attempt to put it into C until I see it in lua. Let me put together something to see if there's really any interest. I'm assuming we don't have this already.

[burli]

Or have an adventure and explore to find another biome. If you're 'unlucky' you may have to walk a few 1000 nodes, i see that as a nice excuse to travel and see the beautiful landscapes.

If you play with hunger you may not survive. It you play with mobs you might be dead befor you can find a stick. And if you have to start a game multible times just to find a place you can survive the first day there is something wrong with the game.

My solution probably will be to find a few dozends of playable seeds and select one, if that is possible in the game without rewriting half of the code

[burli]

It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.

Can you give me a hint? Which file? Which values? Have no idea how to start

[duane]

It would be a lot easier just to tinker with your humidity noise to make more trees.

Can you give me a hint? Which file? Which values? Have no idea how to start

For the minetest mapgen, this minetest.conf setting controls humidity. Raising the first number raises the average. The scale is the second number, so the normal range is roughly 0 to 100. Trees appear when the humidity is around 65.

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mg_biome_np_humidity = 50, 50, (750, 750, 750), 842, 3, 0.5, 2.0

For the lua mod, this setting controls it, and again the first number raises or lowers it. In this case the normal range is -1 to 1.

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vmg_noise_18 = 0, 1, (243,243,243), -5787, 4, 0.5, 3

[burli]

Thx, will tinker with it

[paramat]

> And if you have to start a game multible times just to find a place you can survive the first day there is something wrong with the game.

It's an unavoidable result of noise, biomes vary a lot in size, if we reduce biome size then there will be too many ridiculously small biomes, it's a balance. If there are trees everywhere then all biomes would be forests. For modded survival it's reasonable to try a few seeds to end up near a forest.

We might be adding bushes to grassland, which would help by providing small amounts of wood.

If you adjust average humidity you will make deserts, tundra, grassland biomes rare and small.

[Don]

Maybe we should look at adding things like food source and items other than wood for making tools to the biomes that are problematic. Deserts do have cactus that could restore some health or add pear cacti for health. Tumble weeds could be crafted into sticks for making tools. There are things that we could do to make it work.

The mapgen is great. It just requires more items to make it work.

[burli]

Well, adding items would help. Also adding ores to sandstone caves. But it is still boring if you have to cross huge dead biomes

[Gael de Sailly]

I'm trying to make a new biome system with at least 30 biomes. Not for Lua valleys mapgen, but for a possible future subgame.

[duane]

I'm trying to make a new biome system with at least 30 biomes. Not for Lua valleys mapgen, but for a possible future subgame.

Wow! You don't do things small. /grin

[sofar]

Interesting. I like it. Especially with the right scale, this could be really interesting!

I would suggest tuning the size of all the biomes... swamp ones are really larger right now. You could just move up most of the biomes up a bit.

[Diamond knight]

maybe a setting in a conf file for the size of the biomes, cause i for one think the biomes are too small ( trekking a full size desert in less than a few in game hours ), but some people might like biomes small enough to chose wich biome they live in early on (also micro biomes would look hilarious)

[paramat]

You can adjust the 'spread' of heat and humidity noises to tune biome size, see conf.example mapgen section.

[Gael de Sailly]

I would suggest tuning the size of all the biomes... swamp ones are really larger right now. You could just move up most of the biomes up a bit.

I think the swamp biome is not too large since it has an extreme humidity value that is rarely reached.

[Gael de Sailly]

We're now out of the topic. If you want to discuss more about this biome system, it's here.

[paramat]

duane, see https://github.com/minetest/minetest/issues/4015 any idea how this happens?

[paramat]

Duane, is there a reason for including the biome noises in MapgenValleysParams? Usually these noises are not included here.

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struct MapgenValleysParams : public MapgenSpecificParams {
   u32 spflags;

   s16 large_cave_depth;
   s16 massive_cave_depth;
   u16 altitude_chill;
   u16 lava_features;
   u16 river_depth;
   u16 river_size;
   u16 water_features;

   NoiseParams np_biome_heat;
   NoiseParams np_biome_heat_blend;
   NoiseParams np_biome_humidity;
   NoiseParams np_biome_humidity_blend;
   NoiseParams np_cave1;
   NoiseParams np_cave2;
   NoiseParams np_filler_depth;
   NoiseParams np_inter_valley_fill;
   NoiseParams np_inter_valley_slope;
   NoiseParams np_rivers;
   NoiseParams np_massive_caves;
   NoiseParams np_terrain_height;
   NoiseParams np_valley_depth;
   NoiseParams np_valley_profile;

[paramat]

*** Important news for all using the core mgvalleys ***

In this PR https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/4032 i will be correcting the names of the parameters from 'mg_valleys_' to 'mgvalleys_', for existng worlds you will need to make this change in worlds -> <worldname> -> map_meta.txt. Make the change after updating your Minetest once that PR thread is 'closed' (PR merged). This also affects the parameter names you might use in .conf.