[Mod] TurtleMiner ... programmable turtles in Minetest

[DS-minetest]

the userinterface is quite cumbersome.

minetest has no good interface for writing large texts, luacontroller for example is cumbersome, too
and it works fine, i dont think, the userinterface of the simple_robot mod is cumbersome

[hajo]

the userinterface is quite cumbersome.

minetest has no good interface for writing large texts,
i dont think, the userinterface of the simple_robot mod is cumbersome

simple_robot has a fixed number of 64 instruction-lines.
Instructions work like "action, if error goto line number x".
No labels for lines, no procedures/functions/gosub/return.
Also no variables, calculations, text and no output.

There is no way to insert/copy/move lines,
and no save/load to file or copy/paste.
Also, picking up a robot, and placing him again clears the program.

It might work, but I call that "cumbersome".
Maybe there are better words, like "uncomfortable", "unpleasant", "horrible" ...

I agree that text editing with formspecs is less-then-perfect,
but at least it provides copy&paste.
Also, for basic_robot, I suggested a library-system using books and "include",
so large text can be broken down.

[hajo]

Perhaps my basic_robot mod could be of help too - you can write simple lua programs
..
Example of simple program to navigate robot around and turn if it hits the wall

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

if read_node.forward()~="air" then
    turn.right()
else
    move.forward()
end

At least ...
- name the turtle
? remove the turtle and put it anywhere else without the need to rename it again
- use turtle with open remote control ..
- have an inventory to collect the diged blocks
- use the blocks in the inventory to put the blocks ..
- have a recorder to record and play sequences

Please have a look at rnd's basic_robot.

He did a lot of work on it during the last days,
it now has an inventory and a remote-control,
and can access/write to books.

Maybe with your feedback you can get the features
that are still missing from the turtles, from basic_robot.

And the simple, cubic look makes it easier to modify its outlook...

[octacian]

He did a lot of work on it during the last days,
it now has an inventory and a remote-control,
and can access/write to books.

Maybe with your feedback you can get the features
that are still missing from the turtles, from basic_robot.

And the simple, cubic look makes it easier to modify its outlook...

Turtles will soon have the ability to read and write to discs, as well as interact with an inventory. I will, however, take a look at basic_robot to get an idea as to how it works, and maybe Birgit will too.

I agree that the basic turtle should be simple, but, even with a complex one like Birgit's, it could still be easy to modify. However, modifying the turtles will not happen until we get meta nodedef (or something else like it).

Meta node def is where the properties of each block can be changed via meta (e.g. texture). I talked to celeron55 about this a while ago, but his branch had apparently been abandoned for the time and was inefficient anyways. Will talk again, however.

[hajo]

Maybe with your feedback you can get the features
that are still missing from the turtles, from basic_robot.

I will, however, take a look at basic_robot to get an idea as to how it works,
and maybe Birgit will too.

I have been playing quite a lot with basic_robot, and wrote a page
like "Robot-manual & introduction-to-programming" on the wiki.

It has several example-programs, with comments and notes.
The programs start short, with really basic stuff,
then slowly introduce more and more features.

So I would like to get some feedback about that page, and basic_robot too.

For example, the bots just get the name of the user,
and changing the texture would only affect the local bots,
and all of them the same way.
Maybe team-colors, as a first step to customization ?

Also, how about storing 'private' data ?
As singleplayer, and using my own computer every time,
there is no issue storing code/pictures/screenshots etc.

But how about multiuser, and getting a different computer for every session ?
How about storing on usb-sticks/network/dropbox etc. ?

[octacian]

Version 0.1 release is here! Just to recap all the latest discussion and commits, here's what the mod can do already and what can be expected in v0.2.

No recipes have been introduced yet, but turtles can always be found in the creative inventory. There are currently several turtles, but all have the same functionality and are currently available just for aesthetic preference.

After placing down a turtle, right click it to show the naming formspec. Though kind of buggy, it's stable because it won't crash Minetest. The bugs, however, probably won't ever be fixed considering what they are: when the name is left blank, the turtle has a entirely blank name; when the formspec is closed without naming, when you right click again, the normal formspec is shown and the turtle is named "Unnamed Turtle." It will be fixed if somebody wants it, but for now, it's fine.

The normal formspec is quite simple, even though it has tons of buttons (12 to be exact, guess that isn't that bad). Using the buttons, you (the player) can turn the turtle right or left, move it up or down, move it forward or backward, dig a node in front or under, and place dirt in front or under. Obviously the "Exit" button exits the formspec. A more confusing one though, is at the top right. It just has 3 sets of numbers. Well, those aren't just random numbers, they're the position at which the turtle is. It might be a bit confusing at first though, as the position doesn't update automatically when the turtle is moved. If you want to update the position after moving the turtle, click the button (hey, it's not a button for no reason).

Now, if you're wondering how in the world you can remember all of the above (I'm kinda being sarcastic, it's pretty easy after 2 minutes), don't worry. Instead of forcing you to do that, I've taken an extra 5 minutes so that whenever you hover over a button (except exit, duh), a tooltip appears explaining in plain English and not picture language.

Something worth noting about digging blocks, is that a turtle cannot break blocks with the unbreakable group set to "1". Though it can currently break protected blocks, a patch is in progress.

Version 0.2?
Well, version 0.2 probably won't have nearly as many new features as v0.1, considering that it was the first. Version 0.2 will mostly improve upon current features and expand with new ones. A few planned features include an inventory for storing blocks and placing blocks from, functional remote control, and a text-based editor.

This means that blocks dug with the turtle will end up in its own inventory, but a block cannot be placed if it is not already in the inventory. With the inventory, will come the ability to select which block to place, instead of just being limited to dirt.

Remote controls were originally required to access a turtle, but in this first release, I have entirely removed them for the time. The amount of work and complexity required to make a functional remote, made it seem unrealistic to do for the first release. However, when they are completed, remote controllers will come in two different varieties: single and multiple. Controllers of the single variety will be able to bind only to one turtle, while those of the multiple variety to multiple. Right-clicking a turtle will bind to it, and print a message in chat. Then, left-clicking with the remote will trigger the normal formspec.

The concept of an inventory is honestly quite simple, so doesn't need much explanation. The main formspec will be tabbed, much like the default creative inventory, with several tabs including inventory, text editor, and main. On the main formspec, I button will be added that will show a dropdown-like menu, with a search bar at the top. The menu will contain a list of blocks in the inventory, as well as how many are available.

The text-based editor is an equally simple and maybe even simpler idea. It is a simple textarea where you can code in Lua to control the turtle. Normal Lua syntax will be accepted, with support for functions, variables, loops, and everything else Lua. Code will run under a sandbox, and will not have access to any physical filesystem, though it will be able to write to SD Cards and the likes. An example of the API that will be used for moving a turtle to make a stairway follows:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

for i=1,10 do
    turtle.place("front", "default:stone")
    turtle.move("up")
    turtle.move("forward")
end


Anyways, that's about it for now. There's lots more to come!

[rubenwardy]

This may come sooner than you expect... https://github.com/minetest-edu/turtleminer
(although my design differs a little)

[BirgitLachner]

Hi ... I'm still alive :-) ... I follow the action that happens at github.

It's nice to see, that more and more people are interested in this mod. I'm still correcting tests. The third of four is finished at the moment. The last one will take one up to two weeks. Then I'll may be have some time to do something with the mod.
Then I'll hope to change the formspec for the remote control that should be different for the different animal turtles. Even if the remote control is removed at the moment.

[JulienPavageau]

I would like to test the editor (see especially if I could start adapting blockly) but I can not seem to access it. Should I install anything other than the archive I find here https://github.com/minetest-edu/turtleminer ?

I would also like to add to my small fork a textarea with the script. I would like to be able to send what is recorded with the record button to be able to modify it by hand and in addition to add repeat loop like "3(DF)" to do "Dig front --> move Forward --> Dig front --> move Forward --> Dig front --> move Forward".

This idea is inspired by this very good exercise of the french brebast contest :
http://castor-informatique.fr/questions/2013/2013-FR-05a/index.html?options=%7B%20%22difficulty%22%3A%22easy%22%7D
But I don't know how to have a write access and also a read access to the contents (script_jp) of this textarea. Can anyone help me ?

[JulienPavageau]

I answer myself ;-). It is a solution probably perfectible but it's work with reloading the formspec at each clic on a button.
The basic script is now also ok, you can test at https://github.com/JulienPavageau/TurtleMiner.
For exemple you can make a staircase with 5(3(PA)PH) (P is for the french verb Pondre = lay, A is for Avance = moving forward and H is for Haut = up) or make a "spirolatère" like in this image with : 4(3aD8aD5aD10aD5aD) (a is a shortcut for PA).

[rubenwardy]

My fork allows you to run scripts (although only statements so far) https://github.com/minetest-edu/turtleminer

I've been busy lately so haven't worked on it recently

[hajo]

My fork allows you to run scripts (although only statements so far) https://github.com/minetest-edu/turtleminer

I tried that, and made a short tutorial of it,
but I could only get the turtles to work with the remote.

[rubenwardy]

you also need to install this mod for the scripting: https://github.com/rubenwardy/editor

[hajo]

you also need to install this mod for the scripting

Done, and I added a chapter to my TurtleMiner-Tutor.

That editor is really nice, but it seems to miss buttons to delete & rename files.
Also: no help / list of commands, no comments, build/place seems not to work...

Why did you remove the remote-control in the current version ?
It is really handy for moving a turtle before starting a program.
Also, there is room for another button - I suggest "Run",
as in "run the program currently selected in the editor".

I could also see a 'user-defined remote', say 3x4 buttons with simple text-labels,
and a bunch of programs 'button1', 'button2', etc. in the editor.

[JulienPavageau]

Using a worldedit's form, it's now possible to choose the node that the turtle uses to build :
https://github.com/JulienPavageau/TurtleMiner

[octacian]

• turtle IDs introduced (allow for the following feature)
• remote control re-introduced, and now functional

Next up, I'm going to be working on using tabs in the formspec for different areas of control. With this, the formspec will expand further, with an inventory, customization, and other things.

Note to rubenwardy: I'd really appreciate help with the tabs... I still cannot figure it out.

[BBmine]

Great mod! This is the best mod I've seen in a while :D

+100

[hajo]

[*] turtle IDs introduced (allow for the following feature)
[*] remote control re-introduced, and now functional

When clicking a turtle, the rc comes up, but I get the message

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

ERROR[Server]: Item "turtleminer:remotecontrol" not defined

And "/giveme turtleminer:remotecontrol" complains about "unknown item".

Why do you want to bind a remote to a specific turtle ?
(One rc to rule them all :)

It would be more useful to have a chat-command "/list-turtles"
that shows the status / coordinates of all my turtles.
Same for "/help turtleminer".

Also, scriptvm.lua seems to be missing now ?

[issa]

hello i have start this mod, but how craft the turtle and using it please ?

[hajo]

hello i have start this mod, but how craft the turtle and using it please ?

It looks like there should be more prominent pointers to the tutor,
forum and other documentation.

[octacian]

issa: there are not yet recipes. I will work on adding a few, and will provide a documentation. For now, /grantme all and then run /giveme turtleminer:tech_turtle will give you a turtle to start with.

hajo: the remote control is not needed by default: just right-click a turtle without it (you should update your tutor to this). Instead, since there aren't yet recipes, do /giveme turtleminer:remote - if not in creative - and right-click a turtle. No formspec will be shown, but a chat message will be sent saying that you have bound to that turtle. Now if you left-click with the remote in hand, you can access that turtle from anywhere. Literally.

About the documentation, we will be writing a new set of documentation and tutorial resources, but that takes time and will probably not be completed today. Thanks for your work on the tutor, however, I realize this is not a tutor for Birgit's TurtleMiner. This looks like a tutor for rubenwardy's TurtleMiner. This tutor should not in this case be linked to through Birgit's TurtleMiner, only through rubenwardy's when he releases it.

BTW, there will also be an in-game documentation in the future.

[ManElevation]

i like it, but i wont find a use for it

[BirgitLachner]

It's an educational Mod. The idea is to have a Mod like ComputerCraft for Minecraft. http://computercraftedu.com/ It's thought to learn Programming in several steps. First that a Computer only understand a limited set of commands and you need to use them to make him do what you want, then go to loops and more.

[JulienPavageau]

If you want to see what it's now possible with my little script, I have make a vidéo :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34w6UouqqTs

Before I look at how to use blockly with the editor, I would like to solve the "last" two problems in my fork :
- the problem with the local variables used to store the turtle's action (see Octacian reply nov 7 2016)
- make a pause to see the turtle working, I have the idea to add space in for exemple 10(CHCBA) to transform it in the "step by step" script 10(C H C B A).
If someone could help me...

[BirgitLachner]

Sorry Julien,
I don't have any answer ... but I love your ideas. Hopefully, there could be the possibility to add a script-turtle and the ant-button as an additional feature. But I'll wait ...

[BirgitLachner]

I wanted to change the formspec according to the type of the turtle.
My idea is to add a field to the "desc" variable, that is used while the registration of the different turtle-types. This should work

But there is a problem with the update of the formspec when the user clicks on the position button. As this happens outside of the registering function the desc-variable is not available.

Another solution might be to have something like a global variable that defines the formspec for a special type of turtles. But in the update-line I don't know to which kind of turtle it is. I'm not sure but maybe the meta-data can give me the informations for that.

Any other ideas or instructions how to do it?

It is not only for the animal turtles but I'd like to add in future turtle like the script turtles of Julien and then there is another formspec needed.

[rubenwardy]

Maybe save the def?

turtleneck.registered_turtles[turtletype] = def

[hajo]

I wanted to change the formspec according to the type of the turtle.

How do you want this to work ?
Is there one 'superturtle' that can do everything,
and all others just have some features missing ?
That would simplify developement - switching parts off would be easy.

Or do you want all the different turtles to really have different features ?

And, as a workaround, you could use some existing feature
to decide what formspec to use, e.g. the (first char) of the turtle's name.

[octacian]

The way to go is to save the def as rubenwardy suggested. However, I think that for now we should stick to getting the main "superturtle" working (if you'd like to call it that). That means text editor, visual editor, upgrades, inventory, etc...

In fact, I'd like to suggest that we remove all but the two basic types of turtle (tech turtle, animal turtle), and simply rely on the upgrades part which I'll be working on soon.

But, for now I think we should keep to our old goal, then worry about making different things for each turtle. Plus, doing this right now would likely conflict with what I'm currently working on, that being a tabbed formspec for accessing the different features (somewhat like the creative inventory).

[hajo]

I'd like to suggest that we remove all but the two basic types of turtle (tech turtle, animal turtle)

Underground, and in the dark, the darkgrey tech turtle is hard to see.
The 'digging' turtle (green, with yellow helmet) is much better in this regard.

I made an attempt at modding/reskinning the tech turtle, using
the standard textures from the nyancat ("Kittybot";)

But it turns out that there are only 3 facings (front, back, and side),
and just replacing the graphics didn't look too great.
I guess fixing all that would be about the same amount of work
as creating something new and original, so I didn't go thru with that.