A suggestion that bronze tools be removed

[paramat]

I don't mind copper and bronze being retained ... but we have yet another set of tools that are too similar to steel, there is mese and diamond for super-strength tools.

[Mito551]

I don't mind copper being retained as an ore ... however the bronze addition is a huge mess, i could go into detail if it's not obvious why, and we have yet another set of tools that are too similar to steel, there is mese and diamond for super-strength tools.

From another thread concerning the renaming of bronze to some sort of improved steel or the introduction of tin:

We already have a lot of high strength materials for tools: mese and diamond. Adding a 'hardened steel' is over crowding the tool sequence. Each step in the sequence is and should be a fundamental advancement and each material very different.
wood - stone - steel - diamond / mese
wood - stone - steel - improved steel - diamond / mese? No ... uhuh ... wrong! :P
Adding tin for a realistic bronze would mean tools less strong than steel, and therefore even more pointless.

;)

i think you have to go irc if you want your message to be heard

[Casimir]

There is so much wrong with minetest_game that I stopped to care and just use my own game-mode. e.g.: diamond tools

[mauvebic]

i think you have to go irc if you want your message to be heard

Naw, IRC is for having arguments on why something can't be done :p

I agree though. Like i said in another thread, there doesn't need to be a set of tools for every ore.

[fraang]

Since when is bronze gathered from bronze ore? I always thought it is an alloy...

[Dan Duncombe]

In Minetest it is crafted from 1 copper ingot and 1 iron ingot.

Since when is bronze gathered from bronze ore? I always thought it is an alloy...

[Calinou]

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Oh, also, it is "its" and not "it's".

[Inocudom]

If the bronze tools are ever removed, then the substance could still be used for making carts, rails, and armor.

[mauvebic]

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Oh, also, it is "its" and not "it's".

Uhm, no.

it's = it is or it has
ex:
It's been raining for a week, and now it's starting to snow.
(It has been raining....it is starting to snow)


its = possessive
ex:
I think the company wants to have its cake and eat it.
(its – possessive form. This is correct.)

[webdesigner97]

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Oh, also, it is "its" and not "it's".

Uhm, no.

it's = it is or it has
ex:
It's been raining for a week, and now it's starting to snow.
(It has been raining....it is starting to snow)


its = possessive
ex:
I think the company wants to have its cake and eat it.
(its – possessive form. This is correct.)

lol, grammar discussion :D

[mauvebic]

lol, grammar discussion :D

Well if you're going to correct grammar, at least be right :p

[VanessaE]

It's my opinion that bronze needs to be removed entirely and put back into Calinou's moreores mod if it's not gonna be made from copper + tin.

STEEL AND COPPER DO NOT MAKE BRONZE! At least not in any remotely meaningful way. If you want to alloy the two together and use them, fine, but do not call the mixture bronze.

[mauvebic]

It's my opinion that bronze needs to be removed entirely and put back into Calinou's moreores mod. STEEL AND COPPER DO NOT MAKE BRONZE! At least not in any remotely meaningful way. If you want to alloy the two together and use them, fine, but do not call the mixture bronze.

Well, for a game that's called Minetest, I'd figure the mining part should be one of the most interesting/developed aspects of the game.

I agree though that unrealistic recipes should be tossed, otherwise you're just teaching kids all the wrong lessons and irritating people who know better.

[paramat]

Ha guys don't worry i'm not angry about this, i don't expect to get anywhere and i'm not overly bothered if i do or not, it's cool and i'm not going to 'leave minetest'.

I'm more in a mischeivious mood so would like to just leave this here as a reminder of something that bemuses me.

[mauvebic]

Hi'm not going to 'leave minetest'.

Most people don't leave minetest, they take long vacations so they can spend their leisure time doing leisurely things :p

[roku]

Adding tin for a realistic bronze would mean tools less strong than steel, and therefore even more pointless.

Technically bronze is harder than forged iron, which is kind of what steel is supposed to be. AFAIK the main difference between iron / steel is how hot you heat the ore to (and even then in some respects iron is stronger than steel -- steel is sharper but breaks easier, iron dull but stronger).

We left the bronze age and entered the iron age not because iron is inherently better than bronze but because iron is so much more common than tin (tin ore is rare, very valuable in the ancient world -- copper fairly common).

[Thermal_Shock]

I guess it depends on what direction the minetest game maintainers want to take the game. There's only six tiers of tools in the game, so I'm not seeing paramat's point of view that things are overcrowded.

Bronze tools do provide more uses than steel to set them apart. But I think slightly faster mining times could make them a more attractive option for players.

[vv221]

I think bronze tools are not the real problem here.
Like Calinou said, you don't have to use them.

What I see here is a problem of overcrowded creative inventory.
A redesign of the creative inventory (maybe with categories) would be the most elegant solution.

[/my2cents]

[Inocudom]

I think bronze tools are not the real problem here.
Like Calinou said, you don't have to use them.

What I see here is a problem of overcrowded creative inventory.
A redesign of the creative inventory (maybe with categories) would be the most elegant solution.

[/my2cents]

I think it would help if the creative inventory had separate sections for items and tools.

[mauvebic]

Regarding inventories

[paramat]

I regret the first post now, poorly written and too grumpy, unreasonable to ask for the removal of something. The way bronze was introduced makes more sense to me now, however i still consider copper and bronze to be a mod thing not a default thing. Apologies to Calinou and everyone.

[Thermal_Shock]

I regret the first post now, poorly written and too grumpy, unreasonable to ask for the removal of something. The way bronze was introduced makes more sense to me now, however i still consider copper and bronze to be a mod thing not a default thing. Apologies to Calinou and everyone.

I'm not sure why you're apologizing. Especially to Calinou since he came across rather poorly in his reply. It's obvious from the thread that you're not the only one with an issue with bronze tools as they are.

Some open discussion on the subject might even bring about some improvements.

[mauvebic]

I'm not sure why you're apologizing. Especially to Calinou since he came across rather poorly in his reply. It's obvious from the thread that you're not the only one with an issue with bronze tools as they are.

Some open discussion on the subject might even bring about some improvements.

Why anyone is expected to behave any better than the top people on this project is also beyond me :p

[SilverWolfLily22]

I think bronze makes sense . The only thing I don't like is the colour of the tools. Too orange..

[Erthome]

Perhaps we should not think purely in terms of a ladder of superiority...Bronze is used to this day as a maritime alloy, though largely replaced by stainless steel (aka primarily nickel and steel) but to many's accounting still a superior balance of tensile strength, malleability and corrosion resistance.

Perhaps we should think in terms of the aesthetic appeal and artistic applications...sculpting, jewelry, fasteners, spiritual qualities, nostalgia, construction accents...evolve beyond the next baddest weapon motivation. Life includes 'hierarchy' but that is only one dimension... :-)

[hoodedice]

Don't like it? Don't use it.

Oh, also, it is "its" and not "it's".

Uhm, no.

it's = it is or it has
ex:
It's been raining for a week, and now it's starting to snow.
(It has been raining....it is starting to snow)


its = possessive
ex:
I think the company wants to have its cake and eat it.
(its – possessive form. This is correct.)

Indeed. You are right. Its is possessive and it's is just 'it is' shortened. So read the title again. And again. And again.

Bronze and it is tools must be removed.

I guess you misread what Calinou said.

Grammarn00bs: The correct sentence is "Bronze and its tools must be removed".

@Erthome: I don't see a point in reviving this topic.

[RealBadAngel]

Simply, mt is in bronze age now.
Times of steel and industrial revolution are to come ;)

[jojoa1997]

Simply, mt is in bronze age now.
Times of steel and industrial revolution are to come ;)

Mybe is a mob api is added we can complete the pre-stone age. I love how Minetest is in theBronze age already with no animal bones or caveman canvases.

[TenPlus1]

I kinda like mixing copper/tin to get bronze and make tools that last a bit longer than normal iron... It doesnt hurt to have it in the game...