Hardware requirement to run MT at high FPS

[spillz]

Running the heavy Karshtafen map, I frequently get FPS drop to around 25 fps if I turn on shaders + moving water + moving trees in a singleplayer game. EDIT: Actually even with shaders off I get pretty frequent drops to 25 fps on this map. On lighter maps I still get dips down to sub 40 fps.

This is on a machine running Ubuntu 13.10, AMD 64, fglrx driver (the open source one get worse frame rates)
Specs: 16GB ram, FX8320 AMD CPU, Radeon 7750 Graphics card, SSD.

What does it take to keep fps up in the high 50s?

[hoodedice]

Better software - You aren't the first one with great hardware and yet being unable to play Minetest at a great fps. Check your drivers - usually the open source ones are better. IMO, Minetest has to be optimized for better hardware too.

[Krock]

Why need over 25 FPS, when your eye only can see ~24 at the second?
Seriously, more FPS isn't really needed.

[hoodedice]

I just remembered this:

Try putting this in your minetest.conf

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

wanted_fps = 60

[spillz]

Why need over 25 FPS, when your eye only can see ~24 at the second?
Seriously, more FPS isn't really needed.

Forget the /troll tag? That's the old myth from the film age and really isn't the limit of visual perception.

http://www.cameratechnica.com/2011/11/21/what-is-the-highest-frame-rate-the-human-eye-can-perceive/

In gaming 30 vs 60 fps is the difference between smooth and buttery smooth

[spillz]

And see for yourself
http://frames-per-second.appspot.com

Turn off motion blur to get the full effect for games that don't implement motion blur.

[spillz]

I just remembered this:

Try putting this in your minetest.conf

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

wanted_fps = 60

Thanks, will try. Does that affect draw distance? Have had some bad experiences with terrain pop in that I hope not to make worse.

Mind you, despite my apparent complaining MT still works pretty well. Significantly higher average framerate than MC.

[hoodedice]

Yes, it increases or decreases number of blocks rendered until your fps reaches that value.

[Sokomine]

In gaming 30 vs 60 fps is the difference between smooth and buttery smooth

I think that also depends heavily on the game. For me, the border between "unplayable" and "slow but ok" is more around 15 fps, while 30 are more than fine.

What astonishes me most is that you report fps drops on the Karshtafen map - a very nice, well-built and detailed, but certainly not "heavy" map. To my knowledge, it does not have moretrees or any other mods that add load to the game.

The hardware described is certainly more capable than mine (a poor Celeron 1610 with its IGP has to draw all :-)) and ought to manage more. On my hardware, putting view range to "far" and loading large parts of any map leads to fps drops. I can only afford "far" view for a short time due to fps getting really low.

[spillz]

In gaming 30 vs 60 fps is the difference between smooth and buttery smooth

I think that also depends heavily on the game. For me, the border between "unplayable" and "slow but ok" is more around 15 fps, while 30 are more than fine.

Agree. It's only games with a lot of close in action that you really notice the difference (in the demo above you can see that with the background vs balls). I can definitely tell with MT, but wouldn't call it a horrible experience or anything.

What astonishes me most is that you report fps drops on the Karshtafen map - a very nice, well-built and detailed, but certainly not "heavy" map. To my knowledge, it does not have moretrees or any other mods that add load to the game.

The hardware described is certainly more capable than mine (a poor Celeron 1610 with its IGP has to draw all :-)) and ought to manage more. On my hardware, putting view range to "far" and loading large parts of any map leads to fps drops. I can only afford "far" view for a short time due to fps getting really low.

It's only slow in the town sections or in areas with a lot of trees, particularly when flying. Even at low draw distance (e.g. 5) there are issues keeping up the framerate. My problem could at least in part be driver issues -- using Linux after all. :)

[hoodedice]

That's funny - My Celeron 1005M runs Minetest at 45 fps constantly on a reduced view range. Of course it can't handle the full viewing range

[spillz]

That's funny - My Celeron 1005M runs Minetest at 45 fps constantly on a reduced view range. Of course it can't handle the full viewing range

That is surprising. Have you tried wandering around the town on Karshtafen (or, better yet, flying over it). As I said I can prettily easily get 60 fps (with shaders on, moving water and trees) in many areas.

[hoodedice]

Actually, two variables that I've seen that increase performance in minetest:

1. Linux.

2. Restart the game if it gets laggy. Just quitting to the menu would be enough.

[Krock]

Actually, two variables that I've seen that increase performance in minetest:

1. Linux.

2. Restart the game if it gets laggy. Just quitting to the menu would be enough.

3. Use the mip-mapping filter
4. turn shaders and waving trees off
5. awsum speed

[rubenwardy]

Make sure your full range is off (using R)

[hoodedice]

Actually, two variables that I've seen that increase performance in minetest:

1. Linux.

2. Restart the game if it gets laggy. Just quitting to the menu would be enough.

3. Use the mip-mapping filter
4. turn shaders and waving trees off
5. awsum speed

Actually, I haven't personally seen *any* fps drops with mip mapping, shaders and waving off

[Krock]

Actually, I haven't personally seen *any* fps drops with mip mapping, shaders and waving off

Maybe depends on graphic card...

Well, I must say (after some tests with settings), mip mapping doesn't make a big change. (except of the pixeled view)
I can't verify how much FPS the waving leaves eat, my OpenGL version is too low to support that. Disabling shaders is good when the screen is completely in red.

[Calinou]

Use a window manager that allows disabling compositing, so if you're using Unity, you'll have to use something like Xfce + Xfwm and disable compositing.

[spillz]

After spending some more time on this, including upgrading to Ubuntu 14.04 (shaping to be Ubuntu's best release in a long time!) which has newer and better graphics drivers for my hardware, I think I've come to the conclusion that it's mostly all about draw distance.

On reasonably new hardware, shaders, moving water, compositing, yada yada yada only make a small difference. The key is draw distance, which I guess grows quadratically in performance load, and is also heavily influenced by the complexity of the terrain. On simple maps, even with a lot of trees, my hardware is capable of drawing at 60 fps and a 224 block draw distance. But I suspect there are bugs too, sometimes if I move around a bit the come back to the same place what once drew at 60 fps will now draw at 25 fps. If I use wanted_fps = 60 in some areas of the map I will still see a frame rate dip to 45ish and draw distance drop to mid 70s. This also leads to lots of chunks not being drawn or loaded which looks really ugly. That makes me think there are probably some bugs or needed optimizations of MT itself as hoodedice proposed in the first reply to the thread.

So before you reply telling me I should try x, y or z and you don't experience any drops on much older or lesser hardware, make sure you check on a range of maps and keep any eye on the draw distance too.

One more related issue - if you use fast and fly mode and get ahead of the chunk/block loading, as MT catches up it will sometimes draw the distant chunks and not the closer in ones. You have to move closer before those near by chunks will be loaded and drawn (wonder if this is related to horizontal versus vertical distance from the chunk I.e. further away gets drawn because it falls into a horizontal projection cone, but the close in lies outside the cone)

[Morn76]

One more related issue - if you use fast and fly mode and get ahead of the chunk/block loading, as MT catches it it will sometimes draw the distant chunks and not the closer in ones. You have to move closer before those near by chunks will be loaded and drawn

Moving downward towards the surface in fly mode with Shift usually helps if the terrain directly below isn't loading.

[Sokomine]

One more related issue - if you use fast and fly mode and get ahead of the chunk/block loading, as MT catches it it will sometimes draw the distant chunks and not the closer in ones.

That will be most obvious if you beam to a far away location and put your draw distance to far. I think all the other nodes you're not seeing are simply not loaded yet.

Strangely enough, fps rate usually goes up again if i.e. some chunks containing ground are loaded (from servers as well as in generated areas in singleplayer).

Perhaps you ought to discuss the details in #minetest-dev. It would be great to have some progress regarding fps drops.

[spillz]

That will be most obvious if you beam to a far away location and put your draw distance to far. I think all the other nodes you're not seeing are simply not loaded yet..

Not just loaded, but not even in queue to load. You could stand there forever and it wouldn't appear, you have to move down with shift as morn says

Perhaps you ought to discuss the details in #minetest-dev. It would be great to have some progress regarding fps drops.

I Generally don't use IRC, but maybe can post some issues on github. I am working on keyboard shortcuts for commands in the engine, so maybe after that I can take a closer look.

[Sokomine]

I Generally don't use IRC, but maybe can post some issues on github. I am working on keyboard shortcuts for commands in the engine, so maybe after that I can take a closer look.

That's a pity because most of the development is done in irc on said channel.

Keyboard shortcuts sound very fine. Their aequivalent, touch-buttons, may be very important for the Android port.

[hoodedice]

Their equivalent, touch-buttons, may be very important for the Android port.

And for my Windows 8.1 touch PC =|

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The best way IMO is to use fly, fast, noclip and fly at ground level. I think there is a generation mod lying around somewhere...