What's Minetest still missing over Minecraft?

[MirceaKitsune]

v6 is awesome, if you have the right settings. What is boring are the default settings.

v6 doesn't support custom biomes. You're stuck with grass and desert areas... I don't see how it can be anything but boring.

[LazerRay]

Actually Mapgen v6 does support custom biomes, the More Trees mod creates jungle and swamp biomes in this mode, or at least the appearance of them.

[Calinou]

Actually Mapgen v6 does support custom biomes, the More Trees mod creates jungle and swamp biomes in this mode, or at least the appearance of them.

These are an hack – v5 and v7 support the biome API, v6 doesn't. The v6 biomes are defined in C++.

[MirceaKitsune]

These are an hack – v5 and v7 support the biome API, v6 doesn't. The v6 biomes are defined in C++.

Oh... v5 supports them? I thought only v7 did. Does it work with the same biome definitions?

[Samson1]

Minetest is still missing a lot over Minecraft, but what Minetest does have is better:)

[Thermal_Shock]

Oh... v5 supports them? I thought only v7 did. Does it work with the same biome definitions?

Yes. The basic minetest.register_biome function will work in both mg5 or mg7 without specifying the mapgen.

[SAMIAMNOT]

Who cares anout FPS? As long as its above 50...honestly I think theres likely not a huge differnce between 60 FPS & 80.
What we really need is one of these awesome games to be bundled with Minetest.

[MirceaKitsune]

Who cares anout FPS? As long as its above 50...honestly I think theres likely not a huge differnce between 60 FPS & 80.
What we really need is one of these awesome games to be bundled with Minetest.

I care about FPS staying at precisely 60 all the time :) I hope there will be improvements to the rendering system in the future, which will allow this to happen at greater draw distances. Ironically, Minecraft is written in Java and Minetest in C++ with Irrlicht, yet Minecraft has better rendering performance which is pretty weird.

[srifqi]

Who cares anout FPS? As long as its above 50...honestly I think theres likely not a huge differnce between 60 FPS & 80.
What we really need is one of these awesome games to be bundled with Minetest.

Agreed.
Our eyes only can see 15FPS. No matter how high is it. If it's above 15, it's smooth.

Also, yes. As what everybody said, Minetest is lack of content.

[TenPlus1]

srifqi: sorry to say but that's a myth... our eyes are not cameras and do not have shutter speeds, so the higher the fps the smoother a game will feel to us...

[srifqi]

srifqi: sorry to say but that's a myth... our eyes are not cameras and do not have shutter speeds, so the higher the fps the smoother a game will feel to us...

It's okay. That's why I post my "thought", and I just know that.

Yup. Higher FPS smoother feel. I usually run on 5~15 FPS and I feel that it runs smoothly. :D

[MirceaKitsune]

Agreed.
Our eyes only can see 15FPS. No matter how high is it. If it's above 15, it's smooth.

Also, yes. As what everybody said, Minetest is lack of content.

Actually, I can see a huge difference between 30FPS and 60FPS, in both games and video. This is why I'm normally not satisfied even with 50 and always want a full 60. But I believe that more than 60 is useless, just because it exceeds the monitor's own refresh rate... I keep vsync enabled both to avoid tearing and stressing the GPU for no reason.

[rubenwardy]

I can see the difference between 30 FPS and 60 FPS when playing video games, but not when passively watching video.

srifqi: sorry to say but that's a myth... our eyes are not cameras and do not have shutter speeds, so the higher the fps the smoother a game will feel to us...

There is a point where you can't really tell (like as the FPS increases, the difference it makes decreases to a point where there is no perceivable difference between 200 FPS to 1000 FPS). Yes we don't have shutter speeds, but we do have reaction times. But the amount is much higher than 15 FPS, IMO.

[Minetestforfun]

Who cares anout FPS? As long as its above 50...honestly I think theres likely not a huge differnce between 60 FPS & 80.
What we really need is one of these awesome games to be bundled with Minetest.

Agreed.
Our eyes only can see 15FPS. No matter how high is it. If it's above 15, it's smooth.

Also, yes. As what everybody said, Minetest is lack of content.

It's just a marketting speech :)
This marketing speech is sayed since the beginning of "video games console" (and again today because of good marketting consoles lobbying) ...

Exemple of answer here...

We as humans have a very advanced visual system. While some animals out there have sharper vision, there is usually something given up with it (for eagles there is color, for owls it is the inability to move the eye in its socket). We can see in millions of colors (women can see up to 30% more colors than men, so if a woman doesn?t think your outfit matches, she is probably right, go change), we have highly movable eyes, and we can perceive up to and over 60 fps. We have the ability to focus as close as an inch, and as far as infinity, and the time it takes to change focus is faster than the fastest, most expensive auto-focusing camera out there. We have a field of view that encompasses almost 170 degrees of sight, and about 30 degrees of fine focus. We receive information constantly and are able to decode it very quickly.

So what is the answer to how many frames per second should we be looking for? Anything over 60 fps is adequate, 72 fps is maximal (anything over that would be overkill). Framerates cannot drop though from that 72 fps, or we will start to see a degradation in the smoothness of the game. Don?t get me wrong, it is not bad to play a game at 30 fps, it is fine, but to get the illusion of reality, you really need a frame rate of 72 fps. What this does is saturate the pipeline from your eyes to your visual cortex, just as reality does. As visual quality increases, it really becomes more important to keep frame rates high so we can get the most immersive feel possible. While we still may be several years away from photographic quality in 3D accelerators, it is important to keep the speed up there

Source : http://www.penstarsys.com

[srifqi]

--quote--

It's just a marketting speech :)
This marketing speech is sayed since the beginning of "video games console" (and again today because of good marketting consoles lobbying) ...

Exemple of answer here...

--desc--
Source : http://www.penstarsys.com

Nice info, thanks to share!

[prestidigitator]

Minecraft is written in Java and Minetest in C++ with Irrlicht, yet Minecraft has better rendering performance which is pretty weird.

Not that weird. "Java is slow," is a myth carried over from the 90's. There are a few things that are a bit slower in Java, and a few things that are actually faster. On the whole it's about as good as any other modern programming language. What really makes a difference is software design, and if you treat C++ like it is assembly, you'll often find that element a bit lacking....

[SAMIAMNOT]

The most glaring difference between MC & MT is the inherent boringness of Minetest. I understand that Minetest is meant to be modded but that doesnt mean you should make it boring.

[PeterPanda]

My personal belief is I think that minetest should stop trying to be like to minecraft. I quite like Minetest right now because of it's simplicity and community and I think that Minetest feels and acts alot like Minecrafts older brother; Less childish, less annoying, easier to understand, but also simpler and more sophisticated.

[Don]

The most glaring difference between MC & MT is the inherent boringness of Minetest. I understand that Minetest is meant to be modded but that doesnt mean you should make it boring.

I see Minetest as freedom. Freedom to make it how I want it to be.
Compare Minetest to a tv. Doesn't matter how fancy the tv is you can not do much with it unless you mod it. You need to add cable service, internet, dvd player, bluray player or gaming console in order for it to be useful. With Minetest it is very basic until you add stuff.

Saying that Minetest is too boring when you have not used any mods is like saying a tv is garbage because you haven't added anything to is to make it useful.
Just my opinion.

[MirceaKitsune]

I see Minetest as freedom. Freedom to make it how I want it to be.
Compare Minetest to a tv. Doesn't matter how fancy the tv is you can not do much with it unless you mod it. You need to add cable service, internet, dvd player, bluray player or gaming console in order for it to be useful. With Minetest it is very basic until you add stuff.

Saying that Minetest is too boring when you have not used any mods is like saying a tv is garbage because you haven't added anything to is to make it useful.
Just my opinion.

That is well said. Also yes... what some people might not realize immediately is that Minetest is rather boring by default because it's primarily meant to be an engine, not a full complex game out of the box. Still, there aren't yet any games of MC quality either, and that is something that should be fixed eventually... also the engine still has many bugs and important missing features too still.

[SAMIAMNOT]

The most glaring difference between MC & MT is the inherent boringness of Minetest. I understand that Minetest is meant to be modded but that doesnt mean you should make it boring.

...Compare Minetest to a tv. Doesn't matter how fancy the tv is you can not do much with it unless you mod it. You need to add cable service, internet, dvd player, bluray player or gaming console in order for it to be useful. With Minetest it is very basic until you add stuff. Saying that Minetest is too boring when you have not used any mods is like saying a tv is garbage because you haven't added anything to is to make it useful.
Just my opinion.

This is why smart tvs are getting popular. And if Minetest is an engine I think it should be advertised as such.
EDIT: Like Minecraft, the original TV was not meant to be modded. It was meant to watch OTA TV stations. But, like Minecraft, as the TV got older they modded it to give it more capabilities and hook tch heads into getting another one because its "something new." Same with Minecraft & Minetest modding, except the business model (so to speak) is to give you one TV channel and force you to mod it.

[Don]

The most glaring difference between MC & MT is the inherent boringness of Minetest. I understand that Minetest is meant to be modded but that doesnt mean you should make it boring.

...Compare Minetest to a tv. Doesn't matter how fancy the tv is you can not do much with it unless you mod it. You need to add cable service, internet, dvd player, bluray player or gaming console in order for it to be useful. With Minetest it is very basic until you add stuff. Saying that Minetest is too boring when you have not used any mods is like saying a tv is garbage because you haven't added anything to is to make it useful.
Just my opinion.

This is why smart tvs are getting popular. And if Minetest is an engine I think it should be advertised as such.
EDIT: Like Minecraft, the original TV was not meant to be modded. It was meant to watch OTA TV stations. But, like Minecraft, as the TV got older they modded it to give it more capabilities and hook tch heads into getting another one because its "something new." Same with Minecraft & Minetest modding, except the business model (so to speak) is to give you one TV channel and force you to mod it.

It is not about forcing you to mod. It is about letting you decide what you want. If minetest added a bunch of mods the the game then they are forcing you to use the mods they like.

You have the freedom to add what you want. The issue with freedom is that many people don't want it because they have to put effort into making the game do what they want.

What minetest is missing is the control over what people can do. If minetest starts controlling the players then I will move on. I like freedom.

[SAMIAMNOT]

True but forst time users thinking "oh this is free Minecraft" will be dissapointed because Minetest Game is boring.

[TenPlus1]

Play on a few servers first to see what mods out there, then download and install mods if you like them... It's not boring at all...

[Don]

True but forst time users thinking "oh this is free Minecraft" will be dissapointed because Minetest Game is boring.

It would be great if Minetest was explained better in reviews and on the main site. Even a message when you first open Minetest would be good. Also, a better system for finding mods is needed. I know some people are working on that but until people have an easy way of finding the mods they want it will be confusing for new players. A site with catagories that can be filtered by date, version and popularity is needed imo. The forum is awesome for many things but for new comers it may be overwhelming.
Minetest is a great game but has room for improvement. It has a great community with awesome developers. The development has been strong with no sign of slowing down. There are some great improvements and much more being worked on. A lot of people care about the project and are working hard on making it work for everyone.

[SAMIAMNOT]

True but forst time users thinking "oh this is free Minecraft" will be dissapointed because Minetest Game is boring.

It would be great if Minetest was explained better in reviews and on the main site. Even a message when you first open Minetest would be good.

Yes I completely agree.

...Minetest is a great game but has room for improvement. It has a great community with awesome developers. The development has been strong with no sign of slowing down. There are some great improvements and much more being worked on. A lot of people care about the project and are working hard on making it work for everyone.

This is also true. No doubt Minetest_game's "deadness" will be fixed eventually. I just dont want to wait years, although I already have mods so theres nothing for me to worry about.
To Minetest _game's credit, it's not HORRIBLE. It just doesnt have a good variety of materials and there are no zombies as an incentive to build "that first hut". I was greatly dissapointed to find that there were no zombies when I was playing for the first time.

[rubenwardy]

I'm have access to minetest.net, I've been working on this description for a while:

Minetest is a blocky game engine and a game, inspired by InfiniMiner, Minecraft and the like. Minetest is about freedom - we want you to customize the game, and make your own worlds. Because of this, mods are super easy to create and install. All the content in the game comes from mods, every block, tool and item.

Minetest comes with a basic foundation set of mods called 'Minetest Game', which you can then add on top of. We call these base sets of mods "subgames", and there are many others to choose from. If you'd rather just play a complete game, you can download a subgame which contains a good set of playable content.

Minetest is available natively for Windows, Linux, Android, OS X and Free/Open BSD, and is Free and Open Source Software, released under the LGPL 2.1 or later.

I'd like feedback. (Maybe better to do via PM, I don't know, don't want to hijack this thread.

[SAMIAMNOT]

Thats nice. I really like that descriptor! Maybe you should change "blocky" to "voxel" and add some links to some popular games and mods. I hope this gets added to the site. That would be great.

[whateveralias]

Minetest is horribly presented. It's appalling how bad, and it's pretty obvious too. Goes to show that we software developers might have technical prowess but can't run things that take soft skills for shit (I am assuming it's people on the development team making these decisions, I might be wrong.)

I see people throwing around the old "It's a game engine, not a full game! It's about freedom! People are just not using it right! They must use the mods!". This is all nice and dandy and pretty cool actually, but the entire thing is handled hilariously badly. Here is how 99% of people are introduced to Minetest:

1) They hear about it somewhere and get interested.
2) They Google it and find the official website, which they enter.
3) They see the "Download" link on the top of the page, and click it.
4) They download the game as it is presented to them, in the form of Minecraft_game (here is how it goes wrong).
5) They realize the game is boring as hell and quickly lose interest.

The first experience people have with the game is terrible because the most likely path they will take to install the game gets them to a naked, boring game. The freedom to mod is great but presenting people with the naked game and expecting them to do the leg work to turn it into an enjoyable thing is incredibly stupid. People won't spend time reading wikis and forums to make sure they are playing the game how it's "supposed to be played". They might get into the paradigm of modding and all that shit after they got a taste of a polished, fun game, not before. I'm sure you lose thousands of potential players because of this, and worse, probably a few potential contributors to the project as well.

In my opinion, the "Download" page should be re-designed in a way that encourages the users to download a full version of the game. The very first piece of text should be a very brief and to-the-point explanation of what Minetest actually is and why they should not download the vanilla version and present them with fun alternatives. Minetest_game should be at the bottom of the page, still easily available, but only to people specifically looking for it.

Game or game engine, call it whatever you want, it's ultimately a piece of software that's supposed to provide entertainment and you make sure that the most likely first experience of most users is not fun at all. This is just not smart.

People on open source projects tend to think they know it better though so I expect it to stay this way, which is pretty sad, I really like Minetest and would like to see it turn into something bigger, but it won't happen until people in charge realize that quality code and features are not everything you need.

[Don]

@whateveralias- I have heard that argument many times. You are basically saying that minetest needs to be like minecraft. You make a few good points but miss the freedom part of the game. Minetest can be many different things depending on what the player wants it to be.
I think that educating people about what minetest is about is worth much more then making minetest like minecraft. I have personally commented on different reviews of minetest to help educate people since many of the reviewers have been ignorant of what minetest is.

I do understand that many people do not want freedom. They want someone else to decide what the game should be like. That is the reason that sub games are being included. This keeps the integrity and values of minetest while at the same time giving players a few non vanilla games without downloading mods.

Also, many players go straight to the servers. They get to see many things that minetest can do thanks to the diversity of servers. Then when they try singleplayer they see that things are different. They go on the servers or forum and ask why. The people running the servers are usually really good people. They take the time to help new players and explain things. The community is not just the people on this forum but also the players on servers. The atmosphere has been very positive and pleasant. The players have seen this and they too are trying to be nice and helpful.

As far as minetest providing entertainment, minetest does it well if used they way it was meant to be used. It is like buying a cd player and complaining about it because they did not include cd's with it. You have to go get your own cd's. That is why education is so important. We need to teach people how to use minetest.