Wishes for Minetest 0.4.11 (or 0.5)

[lansney]

+1111 to hybrid dog! it's exacttly what i said in one post before, the game really need to be better structurated to be really much more playable !

[Hybrid Dog]

+1111 to hybrid dog! it's exacttly what i said in one post before, the game really need to be better structurated to be really much more playable !

thanks
l made a little list for changes:
http://wiki.minetest.net/User:HybridDog ... _realistic

[lansney]

Yea i saw your list and I'm pretty agree with 99 % of things ...
A and I remember when and where I post something about this :https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9172&sid=ccf7fbd7cfc8e3ed757c3bcfcbe91e6b&start=375

[Gael de Sailly]

Minetest 0.4.11 is released !
So your wishes for 0.4.11 were your wishes for Christmas !

[jogag]

There are several mods that use use the strategy of replacing an item in inventory in order to change the image for a tool. Screwdriver, clock, the compasses, bridgetool, etc. It's a hack, and a clumsy one in my opinion.

What I wish the brilliant devs could figure out how to do would be to allow a mod to override the image for a particular tool without having to replace it. It would be trivial to do it for the whole class of tools, but we need a way to modify the image for the particular compassgps, clock, or screwdriver that one player is carrying and not for every compassgps, clock or screwdriver in the game. And I'm afraid that might be complicated.

This is my first post!
(0.4.11 was released, these are wishes for 0.4.13 or 0.5!)

I want to allow mods to replace textures (and other properties!) of a single node without changing the node definition. Example:

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-- A tool to change textures
minetest.register_tool("mymod:tex_change", {
 description = "Node Texture Changer",
 inventory_image = "default_wood.png^default_mese_sword.png",
 wield_image = "default_mese_pick.png",
 on_place = function(pos)
  -- a thing like this
  minetest.set_node_properties(pos, {
   tiles = {"default_wood.png"},
   sounds = default.node_sounds_wood_defaults(),
  })
 end,
}
-- When you click a node with this tool, it changes its texture to wood,
-- but without changing the node. This means the node ID will NOT change, and params and metadata
-- will be preserved, together with node events.

This can be used by e.g. technic mod, to change battery boxes textures without swapping nodes.

Another thing I want is adding more options to the fencelike drawtype. Many mods (including the built-in xpanes mod) use custom nodeboxes for fences, and they need to connect them manually, increasing the server lag.
An example:

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minetest.register_node("mymod:glass_pane", {
 description = "Glass Pane",
 tiles = {"default_glass.png"},
 drawtype = "fencelike",
 node_box = {
  center = {
   type = "fixed",
   fixed = {...},
  },
  left = {...},
  right = {...},
  [...]
 },
 [...]
})


And now an important thing to add to MT: multiple dimensions in a single world.
Mods can add their dimensions to a world, and players can be teleported between dimensions.
Here's another example:

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-- Add the Nether
minetest.register_dimension("nether", {
 description = "The Nether",
 default = false, -- if true players and entities are automatically teleported here
 [...] -- some mapgen options here, like minetest.register_biome(...)
})

minetest.register_chatcommand("nether", {
 params = "",
 description = "Teleport to the Nether",
 func = function(name, param)
  -- you can also teleport mobs and other entities!
  minetest.get_player_by_name(name):setdimension("nether")
  return true, "Teleported to the Nether"
 end,
})
-- Type "/nether" in the chat to teleport to the new dimension

The last things I wish are the ability to take screenshots by mods and an event to detect key pressing of ANY KEY (e.g. a mod can show an HUD map when you press M key).

I think the most complicated thing is the screenshot capability via mod, because you need to make something to give the image to the clients if needed.

[gravelman]

+1 jogag

[AnxiousInfusion]

I would really love it if you can add mobs like pigs,sheeps,zombies,spiders,horses,cows or creeper

Please remember that minetest wants to be a basic game and allow the player the freedom to choose what they want in the game. That is why mobs are a mod and not a part of the game.

So then why are players forced to have torches or plants or farming? Why are they forced on players who may not want them by default? Why discriminate against the idea of wildlife?

[benrob0329]

Creepers, Zombies, and giant spiders are not wildlife, and i would not want them to be in default by any means other than a subgame.

MT_Game is meant to be a base, but a complete base. If all mods depended on one mod, shouldn't that be in default?

[Ferk]

I don't know if this relativity exist but, a client side lua API , to give advantage of a bunch of mod to do only specific calculation on client side only ( think about immersive sound mod for exemple....)

Really? The Lua API is completely server-side?

I understand now the performance problems. I thought that there were both client and server elements in the Lua mods...

I would have expected the server to send some Lua code from the custom mods to the client so that the client does its own processing and frees the server from sending constant updates that can be done client-side. Or to do some processing themselves that doesn't require the server to check for (like checking what ambient sounds to play).

Also there's no client-side prediction for mobs behavior? No wonder the mobs are slow, I guess there are a lot of messages getting sent every time a mob moves at random, even though it could have been perfectly calculated by the client just by having the random seed and the code from the mob behavior. If there's no other player in the server and the world chunks have already been transmitted then messages should only be needed for making sure there's synchronization and that the player is not cheating (so it should be mostly the player sending data and the server answering only when there's a special case).

[SAMIAMNOT]

It looks like the devs ARE busy...picking candidates for 0.4.13! I wouldnt whine about the devs not giving you features you want NOW when theyre busy perfecting the next stable release. Lets face it; theyre not adding new features to 0.4.13.

[Hybrid Dog]

I don't know if this relativity exist but, a client side lua API , to give advantage of a bunch of mod to do only specific calculation on client side only ( think about immersive sound mod for exemple....)

Really? The Lua API is completely server-side?

I understand now the performance problems. I thought that there were both client and server elements in the Lua mods...

I would have expected the server to send some Lua code from the custom mods to the client so that the client does its own processing and frees the server from sending constant updates that can be done client-side. Or to do some processing themselves that doesn't require the server to check for (like checking what ambient sounds to play).

Also there's no client-side prediction for mobs behavior? No wonder the mobs are slow, I guess there are a lot of messages getting sent every time a mob moves at random, even though it could have been perfectly calculated by the client just by having the random seed and the code from the mob behavior. If there's no other player in the server and the world chunks have already been transmitted then messages should only be needed for making sure there's synchronization and that the player is not cheating (so it should be mostly the player sending data and the server answering only when there's a special case).

As far as l know there also is no multi thread support, if the map is generating, lots of the rest of the server stands still.
Mobs are entities, which have a little bit prediction: velocity, acceleration, it's animation, …
How about dynamically sending required sound files instead of sending them when joining?

It looks like the devs ARE busy...picking candidates for 0.4.13! I wouldnt whine about the devs not giving you features you want NOW when theyre busy perfecting the next stable release. Lets face it; theyre not adding new features to 0.4.13.

They could at least add local map loading that you don't need to wait for the server to be able to walk into the chunk.
But you may suddenly stuck in a wall of a new house, so maybe at least a non walkable but visible one.

[jogag]

I don't know if this relativity exist but, a client side lua API , to give advantage of a bunch of mod to do only specific calculation on client side only ( think about immersive sound mod for exemple....)

Another thing I want: client-side lua scripting.

This can be a great server speed-up, it can be used by e.g. signs, sounds, and even mobs!
Something like this:
Every client controls mobs near its player, then if another client is near them, the client sends the mob data to the server, which sends data to the other client.
This is another speed-up for servers, because mobs are controlled client-side by each client, and only if there are some. This also REMOVES all mob lag, which is great for both client and servers!

[rubenwardy]

I don't know if this relativity exist but, a client side lua API , to give advantage of a bunch of mod to do only specific calculation on client side only ( think about immersive sound mod for exemple....)

Another thing I want: client-side lua scripting

One of the devs is working on that, but no promises.

[Ferk]

As far as l know there also is no multi thread support, if the map is generating, lots of the rest of the server stands still.

That's a good point as well. This means the server won't scale very well when there are many users.. some of them might be exploring new chunks.

How about dynamically sending required sound files instead of sending them when joining?

Am I correct to assume that sound files are always packaged inside mods?

Why don't we keep a client-side cache of mods downloaded? Then we could require that all mods offer an URL inside of the mod's metadata that the servers can send to the players for them to download (along with a "freshly" calculated md5sum of the mod's content to make sure there's no phishing or custom changes). If the client doesn't have that mod, then it could be downloaded from there. This way clients will have sounds, textures and code, which might even be reused between servers and that can be downloaded from other source without stressing the server.

Most mods are in github, so the mod authors could simply use github links, since github offers hosting of release files.

Also, this way the clients can see what code runs on the server, which is in line with the awesome free software ideology that makes minetest much better than that other game...

We would have the problem of how and when to clean the cache of mods.. but even if we were too aggressive cleaning it (like.. only keep one version of each mod), it would still be better than having to download every time (is that the case currently?).

[jogag]

How about dynamically sending required sound files instead of sending them when joining?

Am I correct to assume that sound files are always packaged inside mods?

Why don't we keep a client-side cache of mods downloaded? Then we could require that all mods offer an URL inside of the mod's metadata that the servers can send to the players for them to download (along with a "freshly" calculated md5sum of the mod's content to make sure there's no phishing). If the client doesn't have that mod, then it could be downloaded from there. This way clients will have sounds, textures and code, which might even be reused between servers.

Minetest clients have already a media cache system, with md5 hashes (I think) for each media. The server calculates the hash of a media file before sending and does not send the file if the client hash is the same of the server.
But MT has no cache system for mods. They are actually server-side only, and I think client-side scripts, when added, will be managed and downloaded like media files (as it's the simplest way). Downloading them from github is like the remote media function, the server redirects the client to github to download the code, but it can be only done if minetest client is compiled with cURL, which can be excluded to make smaller packages. In that case, the lua script can be downloaded from the Minetest server.

[Hybrid Dog]

How about dynamically sending required sound files instead of sending them when joining?

Am I correct to assume that sound files are always packaged inside mods?

Why don't we keep a client-side cache of mods downloaded? Then we could require that all mods offer an URL inside of the mod's metadata that the servers can send to the players for them to download (along with a "freshly" calculated md5sum of the mod's content to make sure there's no phishing). If the client doesn't have that mod, then it could be downloaded from there. This way clients will have sounds, textures and code, which might even be reused between servers.

Minetest clients have already a media cache system, with md5 hashes (I think) for each media. The server calculates the hash of a media file before sending and does not send the file if the client hash is the same of the server.
But MT has no cache system for mods. They are actually server-side only, and I think client-side scripts, when added, will be managed and downloaded like media files (as it's the simplest way). Downloading them from github is like the remote media function, the server redirects the client to github to download the code, but it can be only done if minetest client is compiled with cURL, which can be excluded to make smaller packages. In that case, the lua script can be downloaded from the Minetest server.

you could make a special version for minetest which makes skins become sent via chat, those messages would not be shown to clients using this version
e.g.

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it fits into chat, chat messages are able to be soo long that every player can't continue playing because of lag
the png file doesn't need to contain unicode letters, e.g. $base64 could be used:

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[jogag]

you could make a special version for minetest which makes skins become sent via chat, those messages would not be shown to clients using this version

I think using chat to send media is like using mesecons to ban a player (via command block).
The media system must be modified to dinamically send media. This can also allow mods to take screenshots remotely and send them to other clients (e.g. in a photo gallery in a formspec). This, along with the texture changing feature, can make awesome things, e.g. a picture frame that shows a screenshot you take with a camera as a texture, without right-clicking or punching it!!!
This also improves network performance, downloading less stuff, but it downloads media while playing, introducing lag.
But a smart server can send the textures of blocks near the player before starting game, decreasing lag.

Important thing: 0.4.13 was released!!! Wishes will be now for 0.4.14 (or 0.5)!

[SAMIAMNOT]

Yay!

[benrob0329]

Being able to see what someone is digging, holding, and having armor (API?) in default.

[Silwncer]

I would like to see weather +lightnings and bolts in Minetest without Mods. Animations should be improved as well.

[ArguablySane]

It would be really nice if there was a way to specify that an item is self-illuminating when held in your hand (ie. it gets rendered as if you were standing in full sunlight). I've been playing around with adding a type of glowing gemstones to the game, but it just looks ridiculous when you're holding one in a dark cave and it looks completely black in your hand.

On a related note, it would be nice if we could get self-illumination maps for nodes as well. It would look cool if I could have the gems glowing brightly in the walls of caverns. At least it doesn't look terrible at the moment because I can make the blocks emit light, unlike held objects.

[Don]

ArguablySane have you looked at walking light? It does what you want.
viewtopic.php?pid=36928

[ArguablySane]

ArguablySane have you looked at walking light? It does what you want.
viewtopic.php?pid=36928

Thanks. That would work as a temporary solution.
It's not exactly what I wanted though. I'd prefer it if there was a way to make an object self-illuminating without having it cast light on other objects. A good example of an object where this would be useful is a machine or tool with LED indicators. The LEDs themselves should appear bright, but they're too small to cast a significant amount of light on surrounding objects. Currently if I wanted to add a machine with LED indicators visible in the dark, I'd have to have to make the machine itself a light source.

[Don]

If you make the led's a separate node and place it after the machine is placed then it could be lite.

[ArguablySane]

If you make the led's a separate node and place it after the machine is placed then it could be lite.

The problem is that if the light level of a node is low, then even a white (255,255,255) texture gets rendered as dark grey. If the light level is high, then it throws light everywhere as if it were a 200 W light bulb. Unless there's some hidden texture setting which I've missed, there's no way to make an object appear illuminated without throwing light onto surrounding nodes.

[benrob0329]

There is a better one that uses Minetest's built in functionality, and it less laggy (I think).
EDIT: I read the init, it doesn't; but its still another option.
I don't remember the github page, but it came about because of a github issue.

[Don]

Lighting is a tricky thing. Any of the lights that you use when walking are glitchy. I use to have walking light on my server. It worked ok at walking speed but if you go fast it wasn't very good.

[Hybrid Dog]

There was a pull request to make walking lights without placing light nodes, but it doesn't get merged because it only works with shaders.

[benrob0329]

I don't understand why things can't use shaders, their supported on every graphics card made within the past 5 years as far as I can see...

If we don't want to use shaders, then we'll need a new lighting system where entities can emit light.

[rubenwardy]

I don't understand why things can't use shaders, their supported on every graphics card made within the past 5 years as far as I can see...

If we don't want to use shaders, then we'll need a new lighting system where entities can emit light.

We support devices older than 5 years old. The argument was that gameplay and advantage giving features shouldn't rely on shaders.