GLSL Shaders

[TumeniNodes]

I am kind of hoping that someone more experienced could take a quick look at some of the research I've put up so far, and at least let me know if I am on the right track or say "You're a moron, start over" :D
I can take constructive criticism very well

[TumeniNodes]

So, I have been reading up on supertuxkart devs work with antartica,as a means to fill some holes in how Irrlicht handles shaders

It was decided to move from irrlicht OpenGL path when it appeared that Irrlicht wasn't designed to handle a light prepass renderer at all. Actually Irrlicht is designed to be compatible with a wide range of hardware and software combination (even unaccelerated rendering) and thus does not map very well to a full shader pipeline : for instance, there is no way to use custom vertex attributes in a shader, and texture/framebuffer are limited to GL_TEXTURE_2D. It turned out to be much easier to write a new renderer from scratch instead of patching our copy of Irrlicht (massive) codebase.

I wonder if it might make sense for me to try to get in touch with them to see if working antartica into Minetest is a possibility? Does this make sense?
It would be an addition to the engine, not a replacement and seems to work out well for them? It also sems like they have a very similar setup as Minetest, so it may be a serious remedy?

[benrob0329]

I suggested a switch to Antarctica, it got shot down pretty fast :-/

[Calinou]

I suggested a switch to Antarctica, it got shot down pretty fast :-/

We can do a lot with Irrlicht already, including very optimized stuff, it just needs to be done. No need for an engine switch for this (even though Irrlicht development isn't very active nowadays).

I'm pretty sure that motion blur, water reflection and refraction can be done by someone who has knowledge in GLSL. Entity shadows should be doable as well. Apparently, Irrlicht can even use OpenGL 4.x functionality.

[TumeniNodes]

I suggested a switch to Antarctica, it got shot down pretty fast :-/

We can do a lot with Irrlicht already, including very optimized stuff, it just needs to be done. No need for an engine switch for this (even though Irrlicht development isn't very active nowadays).

I'm pretty sure that motion blur, water reflection and refraction can be done by someone who has knowledge in GLSL. Entity shadows should be doable as well. Apparently, Irrlicht can even use OpenGL 4.x functionality.

Thank you. I guess then it would make more sense for me to continue researching into GLSL, and getting n touch with people who are experienced in it.
From what I see STK have actually seem to have merged antartica into Irrlicht, using it as mostly a rendering agent, with Irrlicht more as the base? Unless I am misunderstanding, that is the only reason why I was wondering if the same implementation would be useable / workable in Minetest.
But, with your thoughts, I agree is best to refocus myself and work at exploiting Irrlicht fully before even thinking of adding even more code. That definitely makes more sense.
I'll just have to nag the hell out of some people on Irrlicht forums until I can find someone who would be able to give some better in depth assistance than is available via research. It gets a bit frustrating following trails and getting excited only to come to a 404 at the end.
It really is sad to see because I do know that Irrlicht has much potential, but they advertise all these features but then not really much documentation. It does not discourage me nor cause me to not like Irrlicht, it only makes me want to try to pick away at it's layers more.
We have all seen the fact that realistic water, dynamic lighting, etc. is possible via some random quick demo vids and pics onlne form earlier days made by an Irrlicht dev, but it is just that then there is not much information on the "how". I do know one part includes using a mesh for the water scene (ok easy enough, Blender, on) but, now what? :D
Anyway, antartica idea, filed away to the back and refocus. I do get distracted very easil...... "SQUIRREL!"

[TumeniNodes]

So here is my question (2 questions actually)
Since there are these two items, LuaGL, and LoadGen.lua . I wonder if it sounds possible, to use these Lua scripts within Minetest , rather than from the actual PC itself... to at least open the doors from Minetest into openGL features?
and then be able to start enabling features through Minetest?
Hope that is not worded in a confusing way.
I know I can utilize these scripts from within my computer itself but, I guess what I am trying to figure out before I attempt it, is if I could maybe simply create these scripts and enable them as mods? thus the features might be controlled from minetest rather than from the pc. and then start trying to figure where to point them to etc.
So if I create a mod folder and title it say "loadgen", add the init.lua, to point to LoadGen.lua, and have the LoadGen.lua in the file, will this be enough to a least get a spark? or does this sound like a pointless idea

[rubenwardy]

Lua scripts are run on the server, not the client. You'd need to add some form of client side scripting. There is also little need to have lua on the client to just change shaders. RBA made a PR which allows mods to define shaders before he departed.

[TumeniNodes]

I think this is the correct one, yes?
https://github.com/RealBadAngel/terrainTest
I should have seen this sooner, he did a lot of work toward this, so will be nice to try to continue what he already did.

[rubenwardy]

No, here: https://github.com/minetest/minetest/pull/3616

[TumeniNodes]

got it, thank you.
I definitely have to take some time and look over all the info.
I get what you said regarding server/client sides.
I was thinking I might be able to create a mod for shaders which could be set via chat line but I realize that would not work and even if it did, would be very confusing and troublesome, and not good since it would be playing with hardware features

[TumeniNodes]

I was reading one of the posts here in the forums and a link took me to this page, which I had not come across yet in my research, and have to say it looks as though it may have some useful info, the list on the left has sections regarding shaders, etc..., pretty much every feature available with Irrlicht.
Hopefully they all lead to existing, and better documentation.
http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/docu/classirr_1_1scene_1_1_i_vertex_buffer.html

[TumeniNodes]

I am currently reading this, hoping it offers some really useful info http://www.geeks3d.com/geexlab/

and this is the most recent release http://www.geeks3d.com/geexlab/downloads/

[TumeniNodes]

So..., as far as GLSL shaders goes. I have many, many questions :P
#1: do all shader features need to be accessed , or ticked on, through the core? requiring C++ work?

#2: Real Bad Angel had the water vertex, and fragment shaders working in his build (but as far as I see his build was for Android?) which I have zero clue with aside from answering my phone :P

#3: would it make any difference adding code to the existing GLSL shader scripts already present in the .minetest/client/shaders directory? As I have noticed even if I rename them, rendering them useless..., the effect still continue to work in-game. And only if I add lines of code... is there any change (such as to turn the water red) which I realize means what I added is wrong...

RubenWardy had pointed me to the PR RBA made but I am unsure what to do with it, or if it is able to work across the board.
I do know, that the shader needs to first seach for the hardware of whichever machine it is running on, and it need the coords for the water levels, etc. and Normal maps to use.
I am just trying to figure out how I need to put this all together, and the chains it all needs to follow.
The difficult parts to all this? Everything, basically. Very limited documentation... secretive programmers who seem to get off on confusing people, and everything related to it all is simply samples which don't really give much in the way of directions.
But yet, beautiful or simply nice looking water is present in so many games..., even wicked cheapie games, and it makes no sense this is not presently available in Minetest.
In my opinion, it would be such a huge thing to have even the slightest reflection for the water, it would give so much more depth and appeal in-game.
I have also tried researching the use of mesh for water features, but I am currently speaking with an individual regarding this, but have only just begun to communicate regarding it so I have a basic idea of how it works, but not how to execute all the steps.
Anyway, I am sure I am probably annoying some with this topic, which is not my intention. I am merely trying like heck to wrap my head around the secret world of shading fx.
I am also very aware that others are extremely busy working on far more crucial matters so I am in no way looking for nor asking for them to put any more into this than to maybe give me some pointers, or even to let me know if I am way out of my league? (but in a nice way haha)
I am a fast learner in some ways, but slow in others... I have an IQ of 160 but various learning curves which have always been a huge curse for me. Simply put... Im really weird and slightly psychotic :P
But any help at all is greatly appreciated

[benrob0329]

you've probably already looked this up but: http://www.lighthouse3d.com/tutorials/glsl-12-tutorial/

[TumeniNodes]

you've probably already looked this up but: http://www.lighthouse3d.com/tutorials/glsl-12-tutorial/

YAY... more reading.... : /
hahaha, JK.... thanks for the link. I think I may have seen this, but via another link... But checking it out anyway. Repetition is often the best learning key

[rubenwardy]

http://open.gl is also very good, I've heard

[TumeniNodes]

http://open.gl is also very good, I've heard

yep, I have been looking through that site.
The difficult part though, is finding people who are interested in, or have the time to get into any real in-depth Q&As. And often those who do, do not seem to be very able to explain things in layman's terms. Meant as an observation, not an insult to any of them. The blame is on my end, as I get easily lost in written instructions / explanations. I am a hands on type of learner, so reading long instructions, no matter how clear to many, cause me to continuously go back and forth reading the same lines, without truly understanding.
So, I also search for video tutorials and do my best to work at learning step by step.
But then, another learning curve for me, once I get the basics, I get lost trying to apply the steps with the information I need to enter for my needs, when they differ from what was shown in the tutorial, such as the variables.
For now, I made normal maps for the animated water png's in my own texture pack and it gives a somewhat decent look to the water... but I'm greedy and want more haha

I downloaded GLew and LuaGL a while back but have yet to even unzip them and look at them.

[burli]

I found

http://thebookofshaders.com/

and

https://www.shadertoy.com

[Calinou]

There's http://learnopengl.com/ and http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/ for learning OpenGL (in addition to rubenwardy's link). Also, look at http://docs.gl/ for a one-stop place to go for documentation.

[TumeniNodes]

There's http://learnopengl.com/ and http://www.opengl-tutorial.org/ for learning OpenGL (in addition to rubenwardy's link). Also, look at http://docs.gl/ for a one-stop place to go for documentation.

I'll be sure to check these out, thanks.
Yeh, kinda have this on the back-burner, just for now. I actually have a friend who "may" be able/willing to do some work with this as soon as he has some free time from his RLJob.

[issa]

Hello,
so what's up ?

i still hope seeing minetest with realistic look ?
so ?

[MineYoshi]

Hello,
so what's up ?

i still hope seeing minetest with realistic look ?
so ?

Well... By now we have realistic water and realistic leaves! :)

[issa]

sory i m lokking th screenshoot on the forum, and that's not really i can see

minetest is cool, but really mising a good lighting,

[TumeniNodes]

It would be cool if we could ask this dev, if they may be able to even offer some tips on shaders...

https://godotengine.org/article/making-shaders-more-accessible

I may try to contact them to ask... (can't hurt to try)

Although, I've said that before with various things throughout my life... and wound up getting hurt... :P

[issa]

that's realy cool

do u have some news ?

[TumeniNodes]

I have not tried to contact yet. I'm a procrastinator extremiatis

I have been thinking of how to approach and what to ask...

I am thinking along the lines of "maybe" if they might be able to offer any simplifying ideas for experience programmers in this community.

But even at that, the current dev team is probably overworked as it is now, and I don't see shaders as a very high priority atm... I am sure there are far more important matters at hand.
This is about eye/brain candy, and effects which many would not even be able to enjoy in the first place..., only those with higher end machines.

And this shaders stuff is pretty complex. But that is what drew me to this individuals comments... they seem to have an unchaotic approach to shaders.