[Modpack] Animals Modpack [2.5] -- 2.6 approaching

[sapier]

ragnarok can you be a little bit more precise about that conflict? thx

@4aiman

I think mobf 1.9.11 does fix 3, 9 and maybe 10 too. Especially for following behaviour plz tell me your oppinion if this is what you expect it to be.

[Ragnarok]

ragnarok can you be a little bit more precise about that conflict? thx

Sure. After last two updates MOB Framework i have this in debug.txt:

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14:17:26: ERROR[main]: ========== ERROR FROM LUA ===========
14:17:26: ERROR[main]: Failed to load and run script from
14:17:26: ERROR[main]: /home/radek/.minetest/mods/minetest/roof/init.lua:
14:17:26: ERROR[main]: /usr/local/share/minetest/builtin/deprecated.lua:7: attempt to call field 'traceback' (a nil value)
14:17:26: ERROR[main]: =======END OF ERROR FROM LUA ========


[sapier]

@Ragnarok sorry to ask again but i can't find roof mod can you give a link to it?

EDIT1:
@all
I've started to use github for bug and enhancement tracking. I've you wanna make sure your bug's/features don't get forgotton just add them there.

[Ragnarok]

@Sapier

http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=1254

[4aiman]

I made a record of myself playing with mobf installed, but the video is a way faster then the audio (damn that on-the-fly compression) so it doesn’t make sense after first 5 minutes...
So just text for now:
- IDK whether model fixed or not - didn't try this time
- vombies aren't so stupid now - that's good
- vombies are faster than me - that's bad. They should be slow
- monsters still have too much HP. 20 HP would do just right if the mob with 20 HP would make 1 HP damage
- ambience + mobf = crappy sound (cause of major slowdown)
- I have 40 fps when am using mobf with several other mods:

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addin_mods  creative  doors  fire     give_initial_stuff  stairs   wool
bucket        default   dye    future_ban  legacy             vessels

addin_mods consists of the following collection:

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ambience        food                     plantlife
animals_modpack-1.9.11    hunger                     riesenpilz
animatedfluids        inventory_plus                 sethome
biome_api        item_drop                 snow
boats            Jeija-minetest-mod-mesecons-ec07fc2  stairsplus
bones            minetest_kill_mod             teleporters
butter            minetest-skins-master             throwing
cactusmod        modpack.txt                 torches3d
chep            moreores                 treegen
deathsound        npc                     walking_light
diamonds        obsidian                 workbench
drowning        particles                 worldtime
farming            pipeworks

Believe me, I want more ;)
- readme should contain some technical info. You've wrote tons of code and that's near impossible to look into that every time I have some LUA server error. Just put some info in the readme - what may cause that problems and what should we do as the users ;)
- monsters should be able to swim (or die in water if not)
- mobs shouldn't be walkable-through
- player should be able to push mobs (includes "to push-off the cliff")
- sheep (or lamb) does not change it's position when punched. Cow does.
- player shouldn't be able to push a mob through the trees (by hitting them too)
- too many mobs around (12 meshes) and neither mobf nor velocity based follow movgen looks good. velocity based follow movgen is "teleporting" while mobf is "suffering from electricity charge" (IDK how to put that in English... Shhining force III called that "paralysed")
- monsters turn around and follow player like they should, but when there's some lags they continue to move in the last direction. Because of velocity usage. I think that's not fixable, 'cause no one know the lags are coming. velocity based follow movgen just disappear to appear later in the different position when the lags are gone.
- I saw a hen, which was falling from the cliff (4 voxels height) then dissapearing then appearing again on the top of that cliff. I killed it while it was flying and got chicken meat. So I don't now what was glitching, but smth was.
- I have met a hen, a cow, an ultra-fast vombie, a bird w/o animation, a big red and a fish. I've played for an hour and haven't seen the others - a wolf or a slime...

I can't remember more of it... If it will be ok to upload a video with de-syncronised audio/video tracks then I will do that.

I noticed that cow is animated. Could you give a link on how-to-do that animation so I can make some more models? It's not like I'm new to Blender, I know the basics ;)

[Inocudom]

I have noticed the above things as well. I wonder if improvements to the engine of Minetest would make things easier?

If you can make models for this mod, then you should consider doing so, 4aiman. Sapier said that he needs a skilled Blender user for his models.

With the trading outposts, I noticed that the ones at high altitudes end up with lots of dirt in them. However, the new texture for the trader is something that I do like.

I like how vaults appear underground now, but they don't seem to spawn too many dungeon masters. As for the dungeon masters themselves, their new models and animations are an improvement.

I like the new models for the rats, the chickens, and the roosters. The ones for the sheep and the calves look a little too square, however.

Wolves do appear sometimes, 4aiman. Same goes for the slimes, but those only appear underground in caves. It would be nice if Boom Bombs appeared in the underground caves as well while being a little less common on the surface world.

[sapier]

@4aiman
- monsters should be able to swim (or die in water if not)
they are intended to die but current water avoidance strategy sometimes gives very bad results

- mobs shouldn't be walkable-through
can't fix that one its engine behaviour

- player should be able to push mobs (includes "to push-off the cliff")
this is already possible maybe direction calculation needs improovement I'll have a look

- sheep (or lamb) does not change it's position when punched. Cow does.
same as above I've already got an idea how to fix

- player shouldn't be able to push a mob through the trees (by hitting them too)
a bug in same piece of code as above I'll fix it too

-I saw a hen, which was falling from the cliff
if it dropped into water I think i have to improove water avoidance strategy a little bit.
Problem is client precalculates movement so if you have a slow connection you may get movement update from server after client showed his predictions

birds aren't animated by now

ultrafast vombies etc may be result of entity out of sync with server if an entity is accelerated and server doesnt reduce this acceleration as soon as max speed is reached ... client will continue to accelerate.
In case server "thinks" entity isn't loaded" but client didn't notice this this will happen.

@Inocudom
dirt within outposts? the house generator clears house space prior building house ... this shouldn't happen at all. But I know trading posts sometimes spawn in strange locations there's some improvement to be done

I'm not sure if dungeon masters aren't spawned or if they die of lava prior finding them :-/

boombomb is a little bit to common i noticed this too I'll, change it.

spawning underground ... I think I'll fix that soon

[aximx51v]

I'm impressed with how well this mod's working! last time i tried it, minetest would crash time and time again.
but i have a few questions.

NPCs and vombies: i can't kill them, is it supposed to be that way?

when slimes are attacking me, they like to jump on top of me, and then promptly float up into the sky. they fall earthward when i move, but is this really supposed to be happening?

i'd really like to make use of one of the throwing mods to kill mobs, but none that i have tried affect any critters at all. it's not fun, trying to kill a BoomBomb with a sword...

i should mention, I'm running 4.4-d1 on debian, with a crap load of other mods

[4aiman]

@Inocudom
May I ask how long did it take to find a dungeon master or a... trading-point... what's that anyway? I spent one more hour (that makes two now) and I didn't see nobody except those guys I've mentioned already.

Also: I made a very first armature-based test model!
As I said I'm not new to blender, but I didn't know nothing about armatures until 2AM last evening... Yep, I'm an "owl" ;)
So who can take a look at this model and say what's wrong with it? I mean it's animated and all, but I don't know whether there are some requirements on size, rotation, animation names, count of animations, length of animations etc.

Here's the video: http://youtu.be/ako0cehkb8o (I wanted to make a *.gif, but it's size were too huge and this video is only 647 Kb)
And here is the model: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/39772195/DM.blend.zip

Also:
Yes, hen was falling in the water for 5 or 6 times. It's not a connection problem, cause I've tested offline. I know there are still server part running, but even if I was restricted by 1 Gbit... Well, you've got the idea ;)

About zombies: they do have maximum speed and do not accelerate over it, but that speed is too fast. What I witnessed is that vombies continued to walk in one and the same direction. If that was just a prediction, then shouldn't zombies get "healed" when the server updates their state? Here, I've a scheme:
Zombie spotted me - I start to run from it - here came major glitches - zombies continued to chase me with a very high but constant speed - I stepped aside from the line I was running by - zombies continued to run by that line - I chased them and punch them several times - Zombies lost 8 HP each - here's the end of glitches - server updated the zombies. And after that smth strange happened: zombies started to run towards me from the positions they were! Also they had the same HP level as the one after I punched them.

That meant that either server didn't update them or the glitches isn't gone at all.

In the first case I don't get it: why the server didn't update zombies positions and hp? The movement I witnessed was only a prediction, cause the zombies should have followed me instead of continuing their march straight forward the line they were going before the glitches.

In the second case I'm more surprised then in the first one, 'cause I killed zombies after I thought the glitches went away. What's wrong with that you may ask? Well, the wrong part is that the server should have updated the zombies sooner or later, but there wasn't any of them anymore. And I haven't seen a pair of zombies appeared out-of-the-blue in the position where they started to chase me. Whew...

About collisions: maybe mobs should accelerate in the direction opposite to the player's? I mean is it possible to implement 3rd Newton's rule of the mechanics: If there is a mob near the player and the distance is smaller than some value, then bot of them should accelerate in the opposite directions a little. That would not fix "walkable-through" bug, but would make it possible to puss all of the mobs in a more realistic way ;)

(I hope that makes any sense... the more I say the less I'm confident in my English...)

[rinoux]

Here's the video: http://youtu.be/ako0cehkb8o (I wanted to make a *.gif, but it's size were too huge and this video is only 647 Kb)
And here is the model: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/39772195/DM.blend.zip

Waaa i'ts very nice and have a good style ! please make more mobs like this \o/

[sapier]

@aximx51v

1) they are killable the only problem is minetests damage system won't do any harm at all if your "punch cooldown" gives damage less than 0.5 (which most of time happens) ... still cooldown is restarted by this hit so you'll end up next time with still less than 0.5 damage. Only way to avail this is punch ... wait ... punch ... wait ... not quite comfortable i know.

2) no slimes shouldn't behave that way ... they shouldn't be on surface either but of course that's no excuse

3) mobf uses standard minetest health system so if those throwing mods do use it you should be able to kill mobs

@4aiman
dm model looks great :-) I'll have a look which of the animations can be used probably not all will be supported at once

you're right hen falling to water is a water avoidance problem I'll fix that.

and the other thing:

shouldn't zombies get "healed"

No it won't heal because of server not sending any updates for unloaded entities. Following scenario:

1) Server: unload entity
2) Client: miss unload entity for whatever reason
3) Client: predict entity behaviour

btw "death" puff-animation is a prediction by client too

About collisions

no won't work this way as soon as server will notice player entered mob and sends updated mob position you'll already be far inside entity. So the only way to do this would be "react" if player is still at some distance ... better solution by far would be entity<-> entity collision handling in server.

I already implemented this feature about a year ago in core, at that time celeron didn't merge lots of things maybe I'm gonna update it to new version and get it merged now.

Why did you choose dm? :-) there are other mobs still missing any mesh texture ;-)

EDIT1:
@Ragnarok
thanks for the link but nemo seems to have removed the mod from github is there any chance you upload your version to somewhere else? maybe you could add a link to it in that thread too

[Inocudom]

Nice job with the dungeon master model, 4aiman. That would definitely make the monster look threatening.

I haven't been able to find any dungeon master vaults as of late, but you can spawn dungeon masters in creative mode.

[Rancon]

how do you make 3d animals?

[sapier]

I do use blender. I assume most ppl do.

[Rancon]

I meant how do you program something in 3d

[4aiman]

I meant how do you program something in 3d

The answer would depend on what you know of programming itself ;)

Edit:
Also, I want my models to be 100% compatible with this mod. I still waiting for some info on animation names and stuff.
Also, I recently have done smth to my minetest, so now sheep is the cause of this mod refuses to get loaded. So I can't check what models are needed. Could I have a list of them?

[Rancon]

Disappearing is a feature as animals are checked to be in correct area but it shouldn't have gone up that far.

I put tnt in water, fishies moved incredebly fast straight up into air.

[4aiman]

Disappearing is a feature as animals are checked to be in correct area but it shouldn't have gone up that far.

I put tnt in water, fishies moved incredebly fast straight up into air.

WHOA! ;) Should test that by myself when get back home 8)

[sapier]

Animations aren't identified by name but by start ad endframe. This is not mobf but minetest behaviour. Mobf assigns a name to those animations but value of this name doesn't matter.
following names are most common used:
stand
walk
attack
eat
sleep

[sapier]

I've just added a ridable ostrich to git ... you need to punch it with "animalmaterials:saddle" to sit up.

There's no reciep for saddle by now. I'm open for suggestions.

[Josh]

Hello sapier, fishing is now possible! take a look at wulfsdad's fishing mod: http://minetest.net/forum/viewtopic.php?id=4375
maybe something like this could be added to MOBF?

[sapier]

I've only read description by now. But as far as I understood this isn't much more than replacing net by fishing rod. I don't think that's really worth it.

[Rancon]

Weird Thing: A Clownfish gets out of water and merges with chicken. Moves the same way as chicken.
Another Weird Thing: Breeding Chickens carry off barn, and barn ends up in water.

[Rancon]

Animations aren't identified by name but by start ad endframe. This is not mobf but minetest behaviour. Mobf assigns a name to those animations but value of this name doesn't matter.
following names are most common used:
stand
walk
attack
eat
sleep

There should be one for flying fishies!

[sapier]

fish shouldn't fly at all so why add an animation?

[Iqualfragile]

10) velocity based follow movgen (what you call butter creeper) ... I'll have a look at it but still changing speed at once doesn't seem to be right in my oppinion ... it's the easyest solution true, but there has to be a way to do it acceleration based too. But of course I have to admit follow movementgen isn't quite as good as it should be.

well, but giving an initial velocity to the object sounds about right as most animals are able to perform some kind of jump

[sapier]

Iqualfragile I haven't seen any object ever break laws of inertion ;-)

Velocity based movement either requres lots of cpu power or will be some sort of "cracky" as you need 24 checks per second to get a smooth movement. Of course as orientation isn't updated that often it'll not make a difference that huge. But that's one of my next core improvements ... update orientation based uppon movement.

Another question did anyone test if velocity based movement really is less cpu consuming?
I've done some tracing and profiling runs, movement never has been a task even near to most cpu consuming spawning code.

And does it really give better results after parameter tweaking for accel based one?

I'm not willing to replace a (in my opinion) far more realistic concept to avoid a already fixed bug in core just because this fix isn't merged for whatever reason ;-)

Still as velocity based movement gen is already included in mobf. You may change behaviour of mobs with next to no effort on your own. Just exchanges movement gen names.

[sapier]

I'd need some help with models for mobs ... especially clownfish will be lots of work to do as 3d model ... after it took a complete day to create fish_blue_white textiure most likely clownfish won't be done anytime soon if noone helps :-(

so all who like this plz help!

If you choose to do a model plz comment here!

[Ragnarok]

@sapier

I uploaded my version of roof mod here. I hope it'll help.

[sapier]

@Ragnarok
I've just checked against latest version of mobf seems I've already fixed this bug. If it's still there for you please tell me what you do to trigger it. Thanks for your bugreport.