http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=64215#p64215
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.zip mods
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RAPHAEL - Member
- Posts: 627
- Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 09:09
For the sake of example...
If you look into the bash mod installer I did you can see using 7z from console to extract is very simple:
7z x -tARCHIVETYPE -o/path/to/place/youwant/it/extracted
For zip:
7z x -tzip -o/path/to/mod/folder
For 7z:
7z x -t7z -o/path/to/mod/folder
If you use zip on linux you still have to run something like:
unzip archivename.zip -d /path/to/mods
In many cases with github hosted mods you also have to do a
mv archivename-master archivename
The difficulty of either is similar. Fetching a precompiled binary on linux of 7z is trivial and installing 7z file manager on windows is trivial. If one is willing to download minetest and mods then there's no reason to be arguing over installing a better archive manager.
When it comes down to it, the archive format of mods is a non issue. For "default" mod packing I use zip since windows users tend to be a bit noobish when it comes to the many archive formats available despite zip being a bit sucky compared to others. For my bash and windows mod installers the default is 7z because the installer comes with ability to extract those and 7z is superior in many ways.
If you look into the bash mod installer I did you can see using 7z from console to extract is very simple:
7z x -tARCHIVETYPE -o/path/to/place/youwant/it/extracted
For zip:
7z x -tzip -o/path/to/mod/folder
For 7z:
7z x -t7z -o/path/to/mod/folder
If you use zip on linux you still have to run something like:
unzip archivename.zip -d /path/to/mods
In many cases with github hosted mods you also have to do a
mv archivename-master archivename
The difficulty of either is similar. Fetching a precompiled binary on linux of 7z is trivial and installing 7z file manager on windows is trivial. If one is willing to download minetest and mods then there's no reason to be arguing over installing a better archive manager.
When it comes down to it, the archive format of mods is a non issue. For "default" mod packing I use zip since windows users tend to be a bit noobish when it comes to the many archive formats available despite zip being a bit sucky compared to others. For my bash and windows mod installers the default is 7z because the installer comes with ability to extract those and 7z is superior in many ways.
"Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it kind, is it true, is it necessary, does it improve upon the silence?"
My mods: http://goo.gl/n4kpn
(Currently Various, Industrial, Fakeblocks, Jail, MoarCraft, Christmas, Replicator, minetest dev installer for linux, bash mod installer, windows mod installer)
My mods: http://goo.gl/n4kpn
(Currently Various, Industrial, Fakeblocks, Jail, MoarCraft, Christmas, Replicator, minetest dev installer for linux, bash mod installer, windows mod installer)
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Menche - Member
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 00:43
4aiman wrote:Calinou wrote:The .rar format is non-free and uses lossy compression which is totally useless for Minetest mods (tell me the name of a mod whose size is > 10MB), so why not use .zip, a free format which is supported on all OSes natively?
Did you hear about not having zip support on some distro? (by Menche)
So why linux users must install smth if windows users mustn't? It wasn't my idea to "not having to download anything to unpack a mod"
Well, zip was trivially easy to install, I needed it for things besides minetest, and many linux distros do come with it, so I don't think there's a problem with recommending always having a .zip option. Other formats may have better compression, but does that really matter with a file the size of a minetest mod?
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Try Voxelands (forked from Minetest 0.3) by darkrose
I am on the Voxelands Forums more often than here.
Try Voxelands (forked from Minetest 0.3) by darkrose
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Menche - Member
- Posts: 994
- Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 00:43
Menche wrote:4aiman wrote:Calinou wrote:The .rar format is non-free and uses lossy compression which is totally useless for Minetest mods (tell me the name of a mod whose size is > 10MB), so why not use .zip, a free format which is supported on all OSes natively?
Did you hear about not having zip support on some distro? (by Menche)
So why linux users must install smth if windows users mustn't? It wasn't my idea to "not having to download anything to unpack a mod"
Well, zip was trivially easy to install, I needed it for things besides minetest, and many linux distros do come with it, so I don't think there's a problem with recommending always having a .zip option. Other formats may have better compression, but does that really matter with a file the size of a minetest mod?
An innocent kitten dies every time you top-post.
I am on the Voxelands Forums more often than here.
Try Voxelands (forked from Minetest 0.3) by darkrose
I am on the Voxelands Forums more often than here.
Try Voxelands (forked from Minetest 0.3) by darkrose
- 4aiman
- Member
- Posts: 1208
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 05:47
Kaeza, if you want me or anyone else to stay calm, then you probably doesn't want to point at some post where instead of using counter-argument you've just slip out of the topic. Keep that link for yourself. And in case you can't understand my "runglish", just tell me instead of making fun. ;p
For one last time I'll try to explain some trivial things for those who do not want to listen.
First, I must thank Menche for all of the following citations:
As well as any other archiver.
Not all of them, though.
Recommending - yes, forcing - no. If anyone wonder why I just say that that either they didn't read all the messages in this thread, or have forgotten their own words.
For most players - no. But there are ones with poor connection as well as there are mods of 10+ Mbytes in "weight". For example "Immerse Sounds" aka "Ambiance". And by "poor" I mean 64-128 KBits/sec. Even with 128 KBit/sec one will wait for more than 10 minutes to get that type of mods.
And if someone don't get anything above or fail to follow me so far, I recommend either to read that again or ask me, instead of making wrong conclusions or not making any at all.
There are NO any format war. If anyone have thought so - you're wrong! I never said a word against zip format. On the contrary, I said that there would be no escape from that format either we want that or not.
But there are different formats available! Why on Earth anyone want to establish "monopoly" of the zip format? Why not only users, but mod makers also should switch to the zip format? There should be support of any possible format!
And for that very reason and to end that war before it was started, I suggested using 7-zip archiver.
Archiver, goddamit, NOT the 7z format. 7-zip archiver can extract any popular format as well as the ones some people wouldn't hear for all their lifespan, like squashfs.
Also, why so many peoples so concerned about windows users and ignores linux ones? There are newbies on the both sides. I don't think that windows users are somewhat retarded so they need some special approach or attention. There also could be some people "living" under linux and having no idea how to install anything.
Talking about already installed zip archiver in non-relative to this case. As well as talking about "I don't want to install" attitude. I didn't have sqlite or libjpeg8 or irrlicht until I've installed (compiled) Minetest. Do I need to cry like a baby that I do not need that useless otherwise additional libs? Or do I need to cry that I can't/do not want to install that libs?
No, I don't think so.
The very moment I wanted to play minetest, it was a deal - either I install all necessary packages or I wouldn't have a chance to play that at all. A big bold dot.
And that's just normal! Especially when we have a choice of forcing people to install zip archiver under linux/windows and stick to just one format or forcing them to install multipurpose archiver so we can support different formats. Users will bound to install something anyway, so why not to choose something that supports more formats?
And please, do not tell me that windows have in-built zip support. That in-built feature can't extract contents of ANY zip file. If no one here ever had a zip file that was "unzippable" with in-built windows stuff, that proves nothing, cause I had and not only one under WinXP SP3. As well as I've seen some zip files made by that in-built feature in windows 7 which was "unextractable" under Win 7 of a different level (basic premium VS enterprise). There would be 1:1000 chance of that to happen, but the fact that can happen remains. How did I solve that? I've installed Universal Tool called 7-zip archiver and was able to do this:
Mod makers can use anything to compress mods/texturepacks and users that want to have an advantage would have to install 7-zip archiver. No one's forcing anyone to do that, though. Sticking with zip wouldn't help to open rar or any other file format. Want to ignore rar or tar.gz or 7z? You're welcome! But do not tell that someone's "love" with zip file format should be more important then someone's "love" with any other format. Use universal tools or be not full-functional - that's how things are here and everywhere else.
Edit: typos.
PS: I DO know that under linux 7-zip just installs others archivers as well and do not extract them by itself.
As well as I'm aware that windows version have different command-line tools in order to support different formats. But what matters is the fact of installing only 1 program/package. All necessary things would be installed automatically.
For one last time I'll try to explain some trivial things for those who do not want to listen.
First, I must thank Menche for all of the following citations:
Menche wrote:Well, zip was trivially easy to install
As well as any other archiver.
Menche wrote:many linux distros do come with it
Not all of them, though.
Menche wrote:so I don't think there's a problem with recommending always having a .zip option
Recommending - yes, forcing - no. If anyone wonder why I just say that that either they didn't read all the messages in this thread, or have forgotten their own words.
Menche wrote:does that really matter with a file the size of a minetest mod?
For most players - no. But there are ones with poor connection as well as there are mods of 10+ Mbytes in "weight". For example "Immerse Sounds" aka "Ambiance". And by "poor" I mean 64-128 KBits/sec. Even with 128 KBit/sec one will wait for more than 10 minutes to get that type of mods.
And if someone don't get anything above or fail to follow me so far, I recommend either to read that again or ask me, instead of making wrong conclusions or not making any at all.
There are NO any format war. If anyone have thought so - you're wrong! I never said a word against zip format. On the contrary, I said that there would be no escape from that format either we want that or not.
But there are different formats available! Why on Earth anyone want to establish "monopoly" of the zip format? Why not only users, but mod makers also should switch to the zip format? There should be support of any possible format!
And for that very reason and to end that war before it was started, I suggested using 7-zip archiver.
Archiver, goddamit, NOT the 7z format. 7-zip archiver can extract any popular format as well as the ones some people wouldn't hear for all their lifespan, like squashfs.
Also, why so many peoples so concerned about windows users and ignores linux ones? There are newbies on the both sides. I don't think that windows users are somewhat retarded so they need some special approach or attention. There also could be some people "living" under linux and having no idea how to install anything.
Talking about already installed zip archiver in non-relative to this case. As well as talking about "I don't want to install" attitude. I didn't have sqlite or libjpeg8 or irrlicht until I've installed (compiled) Minetest. Do I need to cry like a baby that I do not need that useless otherwise additional libs? Or do I need to cry that I can't/do not want to install that libs?
No, I don't think so.
The very moment I wanted to play minetest, it was a deal - either I install all necessary packages or I wouldn't have a chance to play that at all. A big bold dot.
And that's just normal! Especially when we have a choice of forcing people to install zip archiver under linux/windows and stick to just one format or forcing them to install multipurpose archiver so we can support different formats. Users will bound to install something anyway, so why not to choose something that supports more formats?
And please, do not tell me that windows have in-built zip support. That in-built feature can't extract contents of ANY zip file. If no one here ever had a zip file that was "unzippable" with in-built windows stuff, that proves nothing, cause I had and not only one under WinXP SP3. As well as I've seen some zip files made by that in-built feature in windows 7 which was "unextractable" under Win 7 of a different level (basic premium VS enterprise). There would be 1:1000 chance of that to happen, but the fact that can happen remains. How did I solve that? I've installed Universal Tool called 7-zip archiver and was able to do this:
nomohakon wrote:Zip, rar, cab, arj, 7z, whatever. I'm cool with anything. I have 7-zip File Manager. MUHAHAHAHA!
Mod makers can use anything to compress mods/texturepacks and users that want to have an advantage would have to install 7-zip archiver. No one's forcing anyone to do that, though. Sticking with zip wouldn't help to open rar or any other file format. Want to ignore rar or tar.gz or 7z? You're welcome! But do not tell that someone's "love" with zip file format should be more important then someone's "love" with any other format. Use universal tools or be not full-functional - that's how things are here and everywhere else.
Edit: typos.
PS: I DO know that under linux 7-zip just installs others archivers as well and do not extract them by itself.
As well as I'm aware that windows version have different command-line tools in order to support different formats. But what matters is the fact of installing only 1 program/package. All necessary things would be installed automatically.
Last edited by 4aiman on Thu Jan 17, 2013 23:30, edited 1 time in total.
TL;DR
I didn't intend to make fun of you, or anyone else here. It seems you are the one who's on an offensive stance.
I just pointed out my post where I said "Let's not turn this thread into an archive format war please".
I didn't intend to make fun of you, or anyone else here. It seems you are the one who's on an offensive stance.
I just pointed out my post where I said "Let's not turn this thread into an archive format war please".
Last edited by kaeza on Thu Jan 17, 2013 23:58, edited 1 time in total.
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- 4aiman
- Member
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- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2012 05:47
So I should have ignored the bigger part with quotation? Okay. I'm sorry then.
As for war - I had never ever told that anyone should use any particular format. So I don't even know why did you quoted that "please, no war" anyway. And if someone decided that I'm for 7z format, then they're just wrong. I already told everyone for several times, that there would be no war, if everyone just stop to balk and have 7-zip archiver (which uses other packers/unpackers and depends on them) installed...
PS: It seams that I can't say anything new on this topic, however, 'cause I've said so much already :(
As for war - I had never ever told that anyone should use any particular format. So I don't even know why did you quoted that "please, no war" anyway. And if someone decided that I'm for 7z format, then they're just wrong. I already told everyone for several times, that there would be no war, if everyone just stop to balk and have 7-zip archiver (which uses other packers/unpackers and depends on them) installed...
PS: It seams that I can't say anything new on this topic, however, 'cause I've said so much already :(
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