Redcrab's server

[webdesigner97]

Also, since I did originally found the city, and I never claimed anyone else as the owner, I believe that I rightfully am the owner of the place.

Found, so you aren't owner too.

I think his "found" doesn't mean "to find" (like you ca find money on a street), but "to found" (to start something)

[cactuz_pl]

Also, since I did originally found the city, and I never claimed anyone else as the owner, I believe that I rightfully am the owner of the place.

Found, so you aren't owner too.

I think his "found" doesn't mean "to find" (like you ca find money on a street), but "to found" (to start something)

If that's true, then sorry for misunderstanding. I can protect that town for you, but you need to give sub-lands(or whole area) for citizens, they can dig in their lands without charges, everyone can walking every where and if somebody kill you, do screen shoot and report.

Edit: This (-350,-31000,4400 350,31000,4900) area is 700x500? This is bigger than your first area, I will protect only city.

[Tickborn]

Yesterday Max came to Durima, set a flag and proclaimed it a territory of the Empire, My perception is that this is in contrast with the spirit of this Server.
Durima has long been an abandoned place with a total of 6 unfinished buildings (one of a more recent construction) and no claim of ownership on the land. For what I was told it was originally set not just by Max but by a small group of people.
I am not interested in ownership per se. I'd just like to keep Durima the place it has became, a free land where skilled builders are cooperating to create a nice and enjoyable place.
Due to the last events I think a protection is needed, not only against griefing, but now olso against the prepotence of the self proclaimed Empire.
Once more I don't need to be the "owner" of that protection. Payne, if he comes around, as the last of the old builders still active in town, is probably the most indicated person. But I'd be also happy with any other solution: it could be Evergreen, who is also building there. Or even something "revolutionary": why not under the protection of Cactuz himself or of an externad balanced persono like Sokomine (if he would be willing to accept).

Once again, for me is a matter of protection and Freedom. Not ownership.

I ask to keep Durima the Free City of Durima.




To Sokomine, sorry those coords were a typo: it was 4500 to 5200. Already clarified to Cactuz.

[cactuz_pl]

Tickborn, please create your own forum account, somebody can impersonate you.

If he is founder (creator) he can do this, but he have to grant you access to your buildings, town isn't belongs to him, it belongs to all of builders. Flag doesn't change anything, this town can be part of "empire". "Empire" is just little part of this server and it can't have other rules. Max have to grant new areas if citizens (and strangers) want to build there. Max, if you agree with this just post here. If you kill someone because he is walking in the city (or tell somebody to do this) or take charge for land (or other charge ex. for digging) then I will have your agreement for taking this land from you (by change password for example) and revoke interact for 10 days (Ban if you kill someone) Agree? Otherwise I will give this area payne or Sokomine. If you are a good and fair emperor, it should not be a problem, right?

[Cumehtar]

I will try now to explain my negative (and maybe prejudiced) reaction to Max's Empire and what I consider fairness for playing on this server.

As far as I can understand, his project is quite interesting. He wants to create more 'roleplaying' experience from minetest, one where you would not be forced (or able) to do all digging an building by yourself. His project includes professions, salaries for those professions and so on. By necessity, since minetest engine doesn't support those things in game mechanics, it needs additional rules for players. This is where the problems begin.

1) Max's rules are perceived as more restrictive then the rules of the server in general. This is understandable, but hardly pleasant. Such a project would work much better on a separate server, maybe with some mods that would mechanically support his rules (for example, money separate from metal ingots or limitation of player interactions depending on their chosen professions)

2) Max feels obliged to extend his territory to support bigger numbers of possible future players. His attitude is understandable too, but it is also perceived as threatening by other builders with big projects in mind. He always tries to claim quite a big chunks of land, which is disruptive for extending all other projects in the area.

3) Max's stand to other players is too agressive sometimes and he frequently threatens to ban others who disagree with him. I understand he feels he needs to be 'in character' all the time, so that not to break the immersion for his followers. For those who do not play the empire, but build their own theme park, for example, he is but a fellow builder, nothing more.

These three things, however, spoil the game for those who do not want to play in his 'empire'.
I honestly feel threatened that my land and my buildings would be taken from me if he finds some loophole in rules for doing that. That is why I fight him tooth and nail constantly.

This all is quite obvious in this Durima situation. Sure, Max was one of the founders of the city. Then he left Minetest for whatever reasons and other players continued building it. When Tickborn and Evergreen built their structures, they didn't know of any 'Empire' project and didn't agree for it's rules. What Max does now, in fact, is retroactively changing the rules of the city. Saying them to leave 'his' city if they disagree. It hardly seems fair.

What I think we need here is for Max to post the rules of his Empire, those additional rules he needs it to work as a project, then agree on the territories where these rules would work. And a word from Max that he would not extend his area with additional rules too near other player's projects and houses. If Durima can't be neatly divided in 'free' and 'imperial' zone, it should be established as 'imperial outpost' or whatever, where we would be able to either follow 'imperial' rules or not, as we wish.

I believe that the rules of the server should be equal for all players and builders, and not geared towards protecting the players with bigger projects or bigger amounts of land already owned.

[dunkspunk]

Hi i'm new on this server i'd like to have the privs to build on it.
can you bring me build privillege.
thanks


sorry for my english i'm spanish

[JoeyXtreme]

you can do it yourself with the /setemail command

[cactuz_pl]

Hi i'm new on this server i'd like to have the privs to build on it.
can you bring me build privillege.
thanks


sorry for my english i'm spanish

Read first post. http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1705

Self-granted interact privilege (thanks to /setemail command)

How it works:

Let's say I'm a new player with a wished inworld name MrFoo

1) log into redcrab's minetest server with these info
Name : MrFoo password :*******
server : redcrab.suret.net port : 30401

2) When I'm In, I have no 'interact' privilege (no ability to build/dig/place/open doors...)
I can check my privilege by typing /privs .. should be "shout,fast" by default
I type in chat (Type 'T' or Type '/') then I type

/setemail mrfoo@mydomain.ext

of course replace mrfoo@mydomain.ext with your real personal email address.

WARNING : be sure to type correctly the email address
WARNING , if the email address is false or fake my "MrFoo" player inworld name will be locked (due to the password reset)

3) I will receive (shortly under few seconds) a message on screen saying that my password is reset then I will be eject to this world and I have to log in again into this world with the new password provided by email.

4) Press ESC to return to login screen, get your new password from your email.. that may takes time to arrive.

5) Log in with new password, then you may check that you have 'interact' privilege by typing /privs -- should give "shout,fast,interact".

Then: happy building!

If you didn't get your email after few hours, check your "spam" folder or request assistance on forum.

Note: after password reset, you may change the password back to your old password thanks to the change password feature (press ESC, click on change password button).

[Obiewan1111]

Max also had a go at half the server and told everyone to "Shut up" because we were 'Spamming', as he wanted to individually post the co-ords of his zones in chat. THE IRONY?!



It seems like he is determined to own this server somewhen? And, also, his attitude is rather 'Stuck-up'..

[cactuz_pl]

Max also had a go at half the server and told everyone to "Shut up" because we were 'Spamming', as he wanted to individually post the co-ords of his zones in chat. THE IRONY?!

Max, you should know that words such as "sorry" and "please" would be more effective than "you will be banned for spamming and greifing".

[SegFault22]

Tickborn, please create your own forum account, somebody can impersonate you.

If he is founder (creator) he can do this, but he have to grant you access to your buildings, town isn't belongs to him, it belongs to all of builders. Flag doesn't change anything, this town can be part of "empire". "Empire" is just little part of this server and it can't have other rules. Max have to grant new areas if citizens (and strangers) want to build there. Max, if you agree with this just post here. If you kill someone because he is walking in the city (or tell somebody to do this) or take charge for land (or other charge ex. for digging) then I will have your agreement for taking this land from you (by change password for example) and revoke interact for 10 days (Ban if you kill someone) Agree? Otherwise I will give this area payne or Sokomine. If you are a good and fair emperor, it should not be a problem, right?

True. I impose no harsh laws that go against server rules, and I do not have any rules against people entering my empire (stated numerous times in the past). However - at the time that we were not allowing people to enter, we were under attack by a gang of terrorists headed by Neuro, so I didn't want to take any chances with anyone coming and surprise-attacking the unarmed citizens. The city is not on lockdown any more.
Also, I do not tax any of my people. In fact, I give out lots for free. And I pay people to mine for the empire. So, if there is anything ''uneven'' or against server rules, please state that in another post, so that I may change it to be even.
Thank you for granting me ownership of the city, I will proceed to add sub-areas ASAP.

[davidpace]

Sokomine, I believe is a woman. Isn't that right Sokomine?

[Sokomine]

Cumehtar summarized the problem well. There's one point I want to comment on:

What I think we need here is for Max to post the rules of his Empire, those additional rules he needs it to work as a project, then agree on the territories where these rules would work. And a word from Max that he would not extend his area with additional rules too near other player's projects and houses. If Durima can't be neatly divided in 'free' and 'imperial' zone, it should be established as 'imperial outpost' or whatever, where we would be able to either follow 'imperial' rules or not, as we wish.

I think the "territories" aspect is one that is causing some of the confusion here. Protection of areas is a technical means to ensure that builders can be reasonably sure that their buildings are not modified by other players without their consent. It is no real estate! It is just there to protect what you did build or are going to build in the near future. Without trying to place or dig something, but just passing through, nobody can find out who "owns" a local area (ok, issuinig the chat command would technically be possible but is rather complicated; and not everyone has debug mode on). Thus it is not practical to make special rules for certain areas for non-inhabitants.

Most towns have their own set of rules. Those usually repeat what is common sense and are more or less a re-wording of the server rules (basically "be nice to each other and respect each other"). Some additional rules cover the necessities of a city - that is, how to get new areas to build on, how the borders are marked and so on. Other rules are not even stated but followed anyway because the players want to build a good-looking town (i.e. using a similar style for the buildings). The job of the "land owner" is to manage the area and give subownership to players who want to build there. This may include a selection - not every building might fit everywhere.

Thus, new players coming to Max' town and asking for a building space there can consult the rules for that town and either agree to them or build elsewhere with for them more agreeable rules. That applies to the town as such and not to any protected area. It can not be retrospectly applied to people who moved to a town they considered abandomed. And new rules could only be set up with the agreement of the inhabitants who contributed to the town.

Empires are about territories. Expansion may be an integral part of them. But the technical function of protecting areas is not suited for that purpose. The empire and the area it covers can only exist in the imagination of those who decide to play along and participate. To all others, the special rules of the empire plain simply do not apply. It is up to each player to decide if and how far he/she wants to participate in Max' empire. The "borders" can then be anywhere - including towns whose builders are completely ignorant of them. The borders and rules will only be relevant for those players who are intrested in them. They do not mean that Max has any jurisdiction or privileges apart from those every player has. This also means that players who state that they do not want to participate are not insulted, asked to move out or threatened in any way.

What Max builds there and how he treats his..er..inhabitants is not bad as such. From what I understand, building space is sold, yes. If the players agree to that it's ok. Didn't seem particulary expensive (rather a symbolic price). The "wages" for services done seemd rather high in comparison :-) The town offers new players help and building space. Some players seem to enjoy the RPG very much. That's good! It's a game and ought to be fun. Just remember that it ends when other people are treated badly and that following a leader may be easy but does not relief you of your responsibility for your actions.

I suggest to treat Max' RPG the same way as PvP: It's ok if both players agree and not ok if one doesn't want to participate. That leaves margin for errors - missunderstandings, people changing their mind etc - but once the error is detected by the erring party that one ought to try to correct the mistake.

[Edit]Davidpace is right. I just don't usually publish that because women are sometimes treated differently and I want neither disadvantage nor advantage.

[Edit2] And yes, Max seems to really care about his inhabitants. As I said, there seems to be more given than taken :-) Now if the "empire" could become some great RPG that's fun even for the non-participants and thus gain new participants that would be great! But those not participating have to be treated better than in the past. If necessary, drop out of your role and tell people that you didn't mean it the way they understood! There is so much space on the map that we can all build :-)

[rarkenin]

Possible sign vandalism? Sokomine's area near what appears to be a private mine.



Coordinates: 1.5, 8.5, 3

[Sokomine]

That close to spawn? Might be Martins house (at least that is what I remember the sign said). It's not mine. Maybe Cactuz can have a look.

[ch98]

Hi I would like to protect my area

owner : ch98
coordinates : from (300,210,600) to (-100,5000,200)
This space is where my platform in the sky to my future home and it has a lot of things that need protection like maze and mese safes. I don't want hundreds of woods used for maze stolen or ladders to be cut putting meses in safe out of leach. Platform is not built this far yet but it would in future. if it was overlapping, please shrink it to (200,210,500) to (-50,2000,250)

[Chinchow]

Can we add the morechests mod?

I don't know if this was missed in all of the confusion but the request is still there

[Noogah]

I am extremely confused by the way the coordinate protection works.

I have found a wonderful hill with a nice mine, water supply, and trees. I and my sisters want to protect it for development, but first off, the default allowable size is not nearly enough, and secondly, I don't get how you can close off a polygonal section of land using two sets of 3D coordinates.

This only forms a straight line.

(x,y,z)-------------------(x,y,z)

However, I wish to do this:

(x,y,z)-------------------(x,y,z)
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
(x,y,z)--------------------(x,y,z)

In case a mod sees this, and would like to help me out, the land in question is located in the polygon formed between the points:

723,13,-78
634,23,-87
637,18,-182
698,3,-189

A little depth would also be good, so that we can use the buckets in our basements for pools, etc.

Thanks for the help in advance!

[Aqua]

I am extremely confused by the way the coordinate protection works.

I have found a wonderful hill with a nice mine, water supply, and trees. I and my sisters want to protect it for development, but first off, the default allowable size is not nearly enough, and secondly, I don't get how you can close off a polygonal section of land using two sets of 3D coordinates.

This only forms a straight line.

(x,y,z)-------------------(x,y,z)

However, I wish to do this:

(x,y,z)-------------------(x,y,z)
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
| |
(x,y,z)--------------------(x,y,z)

In case a mod sees this, and would like to help me out, the land in question is located in the polygon formed between the points:

723,13,-78
634,23,-87
637,18,-182
698,3,-189

A little depth would also be good, so that we can use the buckets in our basements for pools, etc.

Thanks for the help in advance!

Imagine a cube. It works by typing the coordinates of the two opposite corners, the top and bottom. It will protect the area between the corners.

[cactuz_pl]

Noogah, try this http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?pid=38025#p38025

ch98, I can protect your land only when you are online.

[Noogah]

Okay, thanks a lot cactus-plz! That clarifies a lot. So, I would like to protect the land, coordinates:

705,18,243 631,38,56

I have three people who will be collaborating with me here. Thanks in advance!

[cactuz_pl]

Okay, thanks a lot cactus-plz! That clarifies a lot. So, I would like to protect the land, coordinates:

705,18,243 631,38,56

I have three people who will be collaborating with me here. Thanks in advance!

To grantsomebody else type:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

/add_owner PLAYER_NAME 701,1000,-163 646,-3000,-116

[cactuz_pl]

Possible sign vandalism? Sokomine's area near what appears to be a private mine.

There is no need to check (rollback_check -> lag), it's just a weak joke and I think it isn't offensive.

Thanks for report.

[Sokomine]

Maybe it would be a good idea to equip new players (those that did /setemail) with a set of necessary things to get startet - especially a few torches. A bit tree, coal, glass and cobble (each about 1-10) couldn't hurt much either I think. It takes some time to get to "free" land where trees can be chopped down. Usually there isn't much light there. Also players could experiment a bit with their inventory when they visit the crafting school and try out the receipes.

Regarding the crafting school: Apart from the demonstration mine (which lacks samples of ore-in-stone since no one can place it), the school is ready!

Each thing you can craft is displayed with a chest beneath or next to it. Arrange the items on the left side of the box in your crafting grind in the same way to get the output on the right side. Note: It's a crafting school (and reference guide due to lack of craft_guide) - not a shop :-)

New players: You can reach it from spawn. If you enter through the entrance at the bottom (next to the small lake), please go up the stairs inside and start your tour where the signs say. It starts with things you can craft out of wood, describes tools (such as a pick), shows what can be mined and how useful metal is, demonstrates things like glass, glowglass, sandstone, brick etc. and introduces stairs.

The second floor continues with stair-related blocks (panels, slabs, microblocks and more!) and shows how to craft furniture for living room, bathroom, kitchen and entertainment (TV etc.). The diffrent colors of wool are shown.

Further up you can find nightstands, diffrent decorative tables, bookshelves, rugs and curtains.

In the topmost floor beneath the roof, you can find all types of lamps and light-producing blocks.

Don't forget to climb on the roof from the topmost floor! There is a rare nyan cat on display on top of the roof. It is a donation from AspireMint.

Back on the floor that you came into from spawn you can find doors, fences, window shutters, roofing material (shingles), ceiling paint and flower pots.

Between the doors displayed there, a staircase leads down into the bottommost floor. There you will see naturally occouring blocks and other ones useful as building material for walls and floors. Horizontal tree and a large assortment of glass are included.

Outside the school in the garden you can find a small desert and plants in their natural habitat. Have a look at the all-sides-grassnode!

Hope it will be helpful. If you find anything missing or notice errors, please report them!

[Leroy]

Oh GEEZ! More Griefs :


Missing glass


Missing Yellow/Green Wool


Missing Yellow/Green Wool

[Leroy]

Even More Griefs:




With Creepy Sign. DX

[webdesigner97]

Southern-DC is open again!

Martin?! Where are you? Your hotel isn't finished. :(

[ch98]

Maybe it would be a good idea to equip new players (those that did /setemail) with a set of necessary things to get startet - especially a few torches. A bit tree, coal, glass and cobble (each about 1-10) couldn't hurt much either I think. It takes some time to get to "free" land where trees can be chopped down. Usually there isn't much light there. Also players could experiment a bit with their inventory when they visit the crafting school and try out the receipes.

Regarding the crafting school: Apart from the demonstration mine (which lacks samples of ore-in-stone since no one can place it), the school is ready!

Each thing you can craft is displayed with a chest beneath or next to it. Arrange the items on the left side of the box in your crafting grind in the same way to get the output on the right side. Note: It's a crafting school (and reference guide due to lack of craft_guide) - not a shop :-)

New players: You can reach it from spawn. If you enter through the entrance at the bottom (next to the small lake), please go up the stairs inside and start your tour where the signs say. It starts with things you can craft out of wood, describes tools (such as a pick), shows what can be mined and how useful metal is, demonstrates things like glass, glowglass, sandstone, brick etc. and introduces stairs.

The second floor continues with stair-related blocks (panels, slabs, microblocks and more!) and shows how to craft furniture for living room, bathroom, kitchen and entertainment (TV etc.). The diffrent colors of wool are shown.

Further up you can find nightstands, diffrent decorative tables, bookshelves, rugs and curtains.

In the topmost floor beneath the roof, you can find all types of lamps and light-producing blocks.

Don't forget to climb on the roof from the topmost floor! There is a rare nyan cat on display on top of the roof. It is a donation from AspireMint.

Back on the floor that you came into from spawn you can find doors, fences, window shutters, roofing material (shingles), ceiling paint and flower pots.

Between the doors displayed there, a staircase leads down into the bottommost floor. There you will see naturally occouring blocks and other ones useful as building material for walls and floors. Horizontal tree and a large assortment of glass are included.

Outside the school in the garden you can find a small desert and plants in their natural habitat. Have a look at the all-sides-grassnode!

Hope it will be helpful. If you find anything missing or notice errors, please report them!

I am willing to supply and equip new players with my bank. (With some bank ads.)

[Leroy]

Even More Griefs:




With Creepy Sign. DX

Check this grief!

[Tickborn]

Last goodbye pic of Payne in front of his first house in Durima *sigh*



Cheer up man, we have a lot of new things to do now :)