[Mod] Mesecons (= redstone) [GitHub] [minetest-mod-mesecons]

[kaeza]

Hmm... seems like that won't work then.

I've found a hacky way to work this around by specifying a empty table to mesecon node variable being modified later depending on mesecon present or not ... don't know if its legit to modify a node definition while game is running but atm it seems to work.

Still in prior versions of mesecons this could be done with as less as 3 lines of code :-(

BTW your way *is* legit, even if you already called register_node on the "nodedef". You can modify the tables as long as the game is not started yet. minetest.register_node() just puts the nodedef in a list, and the engine actually creates the nodes *after* loading *all* the other mods.
Ergo, this is valid code:

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

local nodedef = {
    -- your props here
}
minetest.register_node("foomod:barnode", nodedef)

-- ...
-- Some more code here
-- ...

if (somehow_found_mesecons) then
    nodedef.groups.mesecons = 1
end



BTW I'm not very familiar with the new API. Sowwy.

[PilzAdam]

It's not possible to create a mod with "optional" mesecon support anymore.
Node registrations have to be on load so in any case you need to have mesecon loaded prior to your mod.

Knowing if mesecon is installed or not won't help as you can't register your nodes.

This WAS possible in prior mesecon versions!

How about this?

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

local mesecons_path = minetest.get_modpath("mesecons_foobar")
if (mesecons_path) then
    dofile(mesecons_path.."/init.lua")
    -- add your mesecon registration calls here
end


This will only work if your mod happens to be loaded AFTER mesecons as you need to use "mesecon.status.on/off" in your node registrations.

EDIT1:
" -- add your mesecon registration calls here" fails as there are no function calls anymore you need to specify mesecon data on register_node ...

I've found a hacky way to work this around by specifying a empty table to mesecon node variable being modified later depending on mesecon present or not ... don't know if its legit to modify a node definition while game is running but atm it seems to work.

Still in prior versions of mesecons this could be done with as less as 3 lines of code :-(

You dont have to use mesecon.status.*, you can just use "on" and "off".
The new API allows flexible requirement of mesecons because you dont have to call mesecon:register_*. Putting it in the node definition allows every mod define the mesecons functionality without depending on mesecons.

[Jeija]

That's totally wrong, sapier. The new Mesecons API was made in order to allow optional dependencies, see this Issue here: https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/issues/54
You can now soft-depend on mesecons without stupid workarounds.
Unfortunately, you cannot use mesecon.state.on/off, but use "on" or "off" instead, you also cannot use preset rules (mesecon.rules.default/flat/...), but you can define that on your own ones.

[sapier]

You dont have to use mesecon.status.*, you can just use "on" and "off".
The new API allows flexible requirement of mesecons because you dont have to call mesecon:register_*. Putting it in the node definition allows every mod define the mesecons functionality without depending on mesecons.

@jeija ... putting this information to mesecon page is crucial!

[Jeija]

Maybe you need to delete your cache, because I added that at the very top a while ago.

[sapier]

Hmm .. I do have to appologize I haven't seen it.

I wouldn't have searched for this information in subtitle either, but I assume thats my fault.

[Ragnarok]

Maybe it's silly question... is there a way to download older versions of Mesecons?

[RAPHAEL]

Maybe it's silly question... is there a way to download older versions of Mesecons?

Not a silly question at all. However I can't answer this as I don't know myself.

[Jeija]

If you want to have old versions, just use

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all

git reset --hard <commit id>

on the repo.

(This is a list of very old versions available for download:
https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-mesecons/issues/64#issuecomment-11616810)

[rarkenin]

IS it possible to have wireless interactivity between mesecon circuits? Like per-chunk radio, with selectable frequencies? Or map-wide radio, assuming the sending and receiving chunks are both active?

[Jeija]

Wireless stuff is on my to-do list, but there are other things that are more important for mesecons.

[Spots]

i'm slow and not very go at figuring things out easy ,is there a way to make something out of mesecons like a timer switch so you can set a time limit for it to turn on and off at intervals and not use the blinky plant?

[VanessaE]

A delayer may be useful to that end. If not that, then use a microcontroller.

[Spots]

yea not too sharp on that end ,cant figure out how to program the microcontroller

[Temperest]

You don't necessarily need a microcontroller, though it is often more compact to do so. A bunch of delayers in a loop will also work as a clock. To start it, simply turn the starting one on and off again really fast. Here's a simulation:

[Spots]

got ya worked like a champ thanks tons

[jojoa1997]

You don't necessarily need a microcontroller, though it is often more compact to do so. A bunch of delayers in a loop will also work as a clock. To start it, simply turn the starting one on and off again really fast. Here's a simulation:

what program is this. is it this one http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=1172

[LionLAD]

Hello Jeija i have taken my time to make you this...
COMMAND_BLOCK OFF


COMMAND_BLOCK ON


if you wish to use theas textures here is the download:
http://www.mediafire.com/?23um4efq784qk06

(mater of fact any one who wan't to use them can... i prefer them over the regular command_block textures but that is a mater of who/what you are)

[Jeija]

@jojoa1997 It is this one: http://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?id=4228

[Jeija]

The future plans of mesecons

You may have already seen the 1.5 Redstone Update in Minecraft Snapshot 13w01a: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeHBqNvFYgc
First of all congrats to Mojang for finally being able to imitate a piston-moveable block ;).
Secondly, it seems like Minecraft Redstone goes somewhat in a different direction than mesecons.
So I guess it is time to decide on we're gonna do.

1) Adapt to Redstone and introduce signal levels, repeaters, comparators and so on.
+ Easier for Minecraft players to understand mesecons;
This also allows a "Daylight Detector Blocks" with signal strength
- This is a huge change and does not really seem realistic
Modern circuit design is more like mesecons, not like redstone --> change would be less realistic

2) Stay the way that Mesecons is right now
+ More realistic, use an established system, more user-friendly for new players imo
- We cannot make use of signal strenght, detect time etc. <--- disadvantage!
Minecraft users are not familiar with this system

The current system mostly has advantages, however, there is a significant disadvantage: We cannot use signal level and therefore cannot process analogue signals.

Another Mod: Digilines

This is my proposal to work around this:
I coded a mod called "digilines" that adds some kind of data bus system. You can use it to transmit all kind of data, light levels, integer and string values, weight,...

This is a video of it as a data bus in action:


You can download the new digilines from here:
https://github.com/Jeija/minetest-mod-digilines/

The policy of digilines:
I'm only going to support a very minimal core of digilines, that include the wires and the transmission functions as well as the implementation for the luacontroller, nothing else.

You may ask me for help or code for other nodes, but it will be your job to maintain these items. They will also be included in digilines.
An official release of digilines as a seperate mod is planned in a few days maybe.
It still needs at least a light detector, maybe a node name detector.

I'm interested in your opinions!

[Temperest]

Thanks for the update!

As we discussed earlier, I'm all in favor of option #2. Therefore, digilines is super exciting to me. It's now a part of my default MT install.

[Inocudom]

Go with option number 2, but find a way to fix those limitations if you can. It would also be a good idea to try to improve compatibility with mods that rely on mesecons (like technic and bobblocks) since the newest version of it is not compatible with them.

Digilines does have the potential to add functionality to this mod.

[addi]

Number 2

i prever a daylignt / time sensor like the real life.

signal strengh (analog technology) is today just outdated!



a time switch (Zeitschaltuhr)

binary: the user (placer) configure 2 times and between that times the block swithes on
digital: i havnt see that in real but may clock that make a digital signal


light sensor

binary: the placer configure a minimum light and when its over the block swithes from off to on
digital: a digital light sensor that translate the light into a digital value

the digital technics needs also some digital/binary swither too

a compare block that compares 2 digital value and set on or off

a move block it moves a digital signal from input to output if it on

a threshold trigger(schwellwertschalter) if the digital signal between 2 configurable values it switches on

a digital addition ++

digital subtraction --

digital multiplication **

digital division //


and important a counter block that counts the on/off swithes of a binary wire

Your phone or window isn't wide enough to display the code box. If it's a phone, try rotating it to landscape mode.

Code: Select all


------- binary wire

======= digital wire
      __________________________________
      |                                |
------| input (cout up or down)        |
      |                                |==============output (counter value)
      |                                |
------| input (count)                  |
      |                                |
      |                                |
------| input (reset)                  |
      |                                |
      |________________________________|



...


dammed of that stupid minecrafters!

minetest shuld go his own way!
and mesecons shuld not = redstone!

[Sokomine]

The digilines mod sounds very promising! That would add something I miss - a way to handle transmission of data without having to do circuit design on a very low level and fighting with too many parallel lines.

Maybe the signal level is a way of dealing with technical limitations: If the signal decays automaticly, there is less to worry about if the player builds large circuits since the player is disencouraged from building them or forced to spend more time on it.

So please go with option 2 and write that mod :-) If a delay is needed that could still be done through lua functionality for special nodes.

[Jeija]

@addi: Everything you mentioned apart from the light sensor exists!
You can process digital signals using the luacontroller, do whatever you want: addition, multiplications, comparations, ...
The only thing that digilines misses is inputs and outputs, these are yet still binary (mesecons).
I'm not sure on how to deal with input/outputs for digilines. We could say that we don't really want them but use different channels instead, but I may also add them if you want me to (the functionality is there, just not used by the luacontroller yet).

In case s.o. needs it: I wrote a debugger mod for digilines, it allows you to send messages and it prints received transmissions. When you place it, the input of that block is on the left, the output on the right.

The compatibility with other mods that use mesecons is the mod owners responsibility. I announced the API change a long time before it actually took place, and that change was basically there to improve depending stuff, so compatibility.

And a display for messages like thexyz's signs would also be nice in case s.b. wants to adopt that item.

[Nore]

Suggestion: frames, that can be pushed by pistons and make all connected frames and nodes move with them.

EDIT: time detection could be possible, storing it in several lines.

[Jeija]

Check that digiline multiplayer out!

[Nore]

Why are the loops prohibited in the lua controller?

[Jeija]

Because of endless loops that could crash the server. Use interrupt(time, id) instead, it calls the whole code after a certain time again with event.iid = id.
Or just call a function from itself, also kind of a loop.

[Nore]

Could you make a tutorial for the lua controller?