Minetest VS Minecraft

[rubenwardy]

Here is a page that compares Minetest to Minecraft.

Minetest VS Minecraft

Any suggestions for content?

[lkjoel]

Yes one idea: Please don't make it as biased! You keep on showing downfalls of minecraft, while there are many in minetest too. Also, some of the downfalls you mentioned in minecraft are not true.

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's. Second, maybe java does not work on some computers, but Irrlicht either. If Java doesn't work on some odd computer, there is a huge chance that Irrlicht and minetest will not. Also, irrlicht and minetest does not run on android, which java can.

"Java is an inferior game development language". Man, that is as wrong as can be. Java is an excellent choice since it's easy and you can work on the game instead of the minor details.

So my point is: Research before you write things like that. Please.

EDIT: Also, the modding section is not true. Minecraft now has a modding API.

[xyz]

Minecraft now has a modding API

Really?

[lkjoel]

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1560840-an-official-modding-api-for-minecraft/

[xyz]

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1560840-an-official-modding-api-for-minecraft/

It seems it's not implemented yet. So at the moment Minecraft doesn't have modding API (point me to official API docs otherwise).
UPD: After a short research I figured they were claiming to implement API since around 2010.

[lkjoel]

http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1560840-an-official-modding-api-for-minecraft/

It seems it's not implemented yet. So at the moment Minecraft doesn't have modding API (point me to official API docs otherwise).
UPD: After a short research I figured they were claiming to implement API since around 2010.

No, they haven't done it on stable yet, but I remember I was able to use it on some sort of beta or something.

[Calinou]

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's.

Uh, I get better framerates in Minecraft most of the time, even when I'm playing Terasology with medium settings (both at 1920×1080). Last time I tried was in August 2012, so maybe the performance was improved since then.

On-topic: stereo sound isn't generally considered "3D sound" (which is anyway, kinda dead these days... *looks at EAX*), it's a basic feature for any game so it's not worth mentioning it.

You could also mention Minetest supports "HD" texture packs without a patcher (though Minecraft might do that in 1.5 since textures will be split just like in Minetest).

AAA price for an indie game.

20€ isn't the price of an usual AAA game. Want an example? Tomb Raider costs 50€ on PC and 60€ on PS3.

if players access a modified server, they need to modify their client.

This is incorrect -- players will only need modified clients if the server adds content, if it doesn't (eg. CraftBukkit), no modified client is needed.

Framerate is limited to 60fps, which means that it saves processing power for more important things.
(the average screen is 60fps)

The default framerate limit is 65 (a bit more than 60 to prevent tearing on some 60Hz screens), you can change it with fps_max (0 means no limit). It's a feature any game should have, it saves power and prevents unnecessary noise and heat.

Fun fact: it is illegal to redistribute modified versions of Minecraft, this includes mods unless they come in a "patch" form.

[lkjoel]

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's.

Uh, I get better framerates in Minecraft most of the time, even when I'm playing Terasology with medium settings (both at 1920×1080). Last time I tried was in August 2012, so maybe the performance was improved since then.

Yes, the performance has improved.

[xyz]

No, they haven't done it on stable yet, but I remember I was able to use it on some sort of beta or something.

So, can you point me to some API doc instead of saying you were able to use it (unless you're under NDA of course)?

[lkjoel]

No, they haven't done it on stable yet, but I remember I was able to use it on some sort of beta or something.

So, can you point me to some API doc instead of saying you were able to use it (unless you're under NDA of course)?

lol oh wait, yeah, you're right, it was an unofficial one. My friend just pointed me to a patched minecraft.jar I guess then.

[0gb.us]

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's. Second, maybe java does not work on some computers, but Irrlicht either. If Java doesn't work on some odd computer, there is a huge chance that Irrlicht and minetest will not. Also, irrlicht and minetest does not run on android, which java can.

Java is very slow. Minecraft barely runs on my system, and Terasology is completely unplayable on my system. Minetest runs fairly well though. My Minetest frame rate is about 30 FPS most of the time, and my Minecraft frame rate is about 5 FPS. Although, that's not why I don't like Minecraft.

[lkjoel]

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's. Second, maybe java does not work on some computers, but Irrlicht either. If Java doesn't work on some odd computer, there is a huge chance that Irrlicht and minetest will not. Also, irrlicht and minetest does not run on android, which java can.

Java is very slow. Minecraft barely runs on my system, and Terasology is completely unplayable on my system. Minetest runs fairly well though. My Minetest frame rate is about 30 FPS most of the time, and my Minecraft frame rate is about 5 FPS. Although, that's not why I don't like Minecraft.

Then you have an issue with your java configuration. Java is actually quite fast, much faster than most other programming languages.

[0gb.us]

For example, Java is NOT slow. Just check out terasology, which has way better graphics and SFX than minetest, and see how its framerate is much better than minetest's. Second, maybe java does not work on some computers, but Irrlicht either. If Java doesn't work on some odd computer, there is a huge chance that Irrlicht and minetest will not. Also, irrlicht and minetest does not run on android, which java can.

Java is very slow. Minecraft barely runs on my system, and Terasology is completely unplayable on my system. Minetest runs fairly well though. My Minetest frame rate is about 30 FPS most of the time, and my Minecraft frame rate is about 5 FPS. Although, that's not why I don't like Minecraft.

Then you have an issue with your java configuration. Java is actually quite fast, much faster than most other programming languages.

I don't think it's an issue with my configuration, it's just my weak computer. But the point is that C++ is much faster than Java. Even on a stronger computer, where you can get Java running quickly, C++ is a lower level language, and therefore, is much faster.

[lkjoel]

Java is very slow. Minecraft barely runs on my system, and Terasology is completely unplayable on my system. Minetest runs fairly well though. My Minetest frame rate is about 30 FPS most of the time, and my Minecraft frame rate is about 5 FPS. Although, that's not why I don't like Minecraft.

Then you have an issue with your java configuration. Java is actually quite fast, much faster than most other programming languages.

I don't think it's an issue with my configuration, it's just my weak computer. But the point is that C++ is much faster than Java. Even on a stronger computer, where you can get Java running quickly, C++ is a lower level language, and therefore, is much faster.

Yes, of course, but badly written C++ (prefect example: minetest) can be much slower than Java. Terasology is excellently written Java, and even on the highest settings, I get better framerates than in minetest (minetest is ~30 with barely any mods, Terasology is ~40-50 with highest settings and all mods available enabled).

[0gb.us]

Then you have an issue with your java configuration. Java is actually quite fast, much faster than most other programming languages.

I don't think it's an issue with my configuration, it's just my weak computer. But the point is that C++ is much faster than Java. Even on a stronger computer, where you can get Java running quickly, C++ is a lower level language, and therefore, is much faster.

Yes, of course, but badly written C++ (prefect example: minetest) can be much slower than Java. Terasology is excellently written Java, and even on the highest settings, I get better framerates than in minetest (minetest is ~30 with barely any mods, Terasology is ~40-50 with highest settings and all mods available enabled).

Terasology won't even run (in a playable manner) on my system, and Minetest runs much better than Minecraft. If Minetest is so poorly written (and I won't even try to debate this), it's not written poorly enough to outweigh it's faster C++ language. Minetest runs raster and on fewer resources than Minecraft or Terasology.

[lkjoel]

I don't think it's an issue with my configuration, it's just my weak computer. But the point is that C++ is much faster than Java. Even on a stronger computer, where you can get Java running quickly, C++ is a lower level language, and therefore, is much faster.

Yes, of course, but badly written C++ (prefect example: minetest) can be much slower than Java. Terasology is excellently written Java, and even on the highest settings, I get better framerates than in minetest (minetest is ~30 with barely any mods, Terasology is ~40-50 with highest settings and all mods available enabled).

Terasology won't even run (in a playable manner) on my system, and Minetest runs much better than Minecraft. If Minetest is so poorly written (and I won't even try to debate this), it's not written poorly enough to outweigh it's faster C++ language. Minetest runs raster and on fewer resources than Minecraft or Terasology.

As I said, it's an issue with your configuration. Minetest is written in C++, but has lua mods, and lua is actually really slow. And minetest doesn't use any shaders, which makes it even more slow.

[0gb.us]

Yes, of course, but badly written C++ (prefect example: minetest) can be much slower than Java. Terasology is excellently written Java, and even on the highest settings, I get better framerates than in minetest (minetest is ~30 with barely any mods, Terasology is ~40-50 with highest settings and all mods available enabled).

Terasology won't even run (in a playable manner) on my system, and Minetest runs much better than Minecraft. If Minetest is so poorly written (and I won't even try to debate this), it's not written poorly enough to outweigh it's faster C++ language. Minetest runs raster and on fewer resources than Minecraft or Terasology.

As I said, it's an issue with your configuration. Minetest is written in C++, but has lua mods, and lua is actually really slow. And minetest doesn't use any shaders, which makes it even more slow.

My configuration is the default configuration. There's no reason why the default configuration would be (overly) slow. It's not my configuration that is the issue. Minetest is a faster game.

EDIT: Prove me wrong. What do I need to do to "fix" my configuration?

[lkjoel]

Terasology won't even run (in a playable manner) on my system, and Minetest runs much better than Minecraft. If Minetest is so poorly written (and I won't even try to debate this), it's not written poorly enough to outweigh it's faster C++ language. Minetest runs raster and on fewer resources than Minecraft or Terasology.

As I said, it's an issue with your configuration. Minetest is written in C++, but has lua mods, and lua is actually really slow. And minetest doesn't use any shaders, which makes it even more slow.

My configuration is the default configuration. There's no reason why the default configuration would be (overly) slow. It's not my configuration that is the issue. Minetest is a faster game.

Alright, I see, you want to take the blue pill. If that's it, then fine, but I just find it kind of annoying :/

[0gb.us]

As I said, it's an issue with your configuration. Minetest is written in C++, but has lua mods, and lua is actually really slow. And minetest doesn't use any shaders, which makes it even more slow.

My configuration is the default configuration. There's no reason why the default configuration would be (overly) slow. It's not my configuration that is the issue. Minetest is a faster game.

Alright, I see, you want to take the blue pill. If that's it, then fine, but I just find it kind of annoying :/

No, you must have started you post before I edited mine.

EDIT: Prove me wrong. What do I need to do to "fix" my configuration?

And I don't know what sort of pills you're talking about, but I don't do drugs.

[lkjoel]

My configuration is the default configuration. There's no reason why the default configuration would be (overly) slow. It's not my configuration that is the issue. Minetest is a faster game.

Alright, I see, you want to take the blue pill. If that's it, then fine, but I just find it kind of annoying :/

No, you must have started you post before I edited mine.

EDIT: Prove me wrong. What do I need to do to "fix" my configuration?

And I don't know what sort of pills you're talking about, but I don't do drugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

And fine, just turn off every graphics setting in the config.cfg in terasology. If it's still slow, then you have an old graphics card, and, well, minetest will of course run faster, but on every other system that has proper shader support, then no, it will be slower. Point is, it's not only the language that makes it faster, it's also what you do with it.

[0gb.us]

Alright, I see, you want to take the blue pill. If that's it, then fine, but I just find it kind of annoying :/

No, you must have started you post before I edited mine.

EDIT: Prove me wrong. What do I need to do to "fix" my configuration?

And I don't know what sort of pills you're talking about, but I don't do drugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

And fine, just turn off every graphics setting in the config.cfg in terasology. If it's still slow, then you have an old graphics card, and, well, minetest will of course run faster, but on every other system that has proper shader support, then no, it will be slower. Point is, it's not only the language that makes it faster, it's also what you do with it.

Ah. Movies and popular culture. Two things I am bad at.

Also, for some reason, I thought you were talking about my Java configuration (which is why I was being so stubborn that my configuration was fine), not my Terasology configuration. That is completely my bad. Sorry. I don't have time for games at the moment, but I will try your suggestion later tonight. Terasology is indeed beautiful, an it would be nice to get a chance to actually try it out.

I do know that what you do with the language matters, but so does the choice of language itself. Which is more important, optimized code, or an optimized language? Both are rather important, I think.

[lkjoel]

No, you must have started you post before I edited mine.



And I don't know what sort of pills you're talking about, but I don't do drugs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_pill_and_blue_pill

And fine, just turn off every graphics setting in the config.cfg in terasology. If it's still slow, then you have an old graphics card, and, well, minetest will of course run faster, but on every other system that has proper shader support, then no, it will be slower. Point is, it's not only the language that makes it faster, it's also what you do with it.

Ah. Movies and popular culture. Two things I am bad at.

Same here, it's just that the matrix was recommended to me over and over so I just had to watch it :)

Also, for some reason, I thought you were talking about my Java configuration (which is why I was being so stubborn that my configuration was fine), not my Terasology configuration. That is completely my bad. Sorry. I don't have time for games at the moment, but I will try your suggestion later tonight. Terasology is indeed beautiful, an it would be nice to get a chance to actually try it out.

Ok great :D You will might need to edit it by hand (and not by the GUI), because the GUI seems to do things wrong.

I do know that what you do with the language matters, but so does the choice of language itself. Which is more important, optimized code, or an optimized language? Both are rather important, I think.

Yes of course, but Java is actually not that slow, so if minetest has heavily unoptimized code, and uses a heck of a lot of lua (which is a very slow language), then it will probably be slower than, say, terasology, where they use optimized Java, Java mods, and use a lot of shaders (which is one of the fastest, if not the fastest way to draw graphics).

[0gb.us]

Ah. Movies and popular culture. Two things I am bad at.

Same here, it's just that the matrix was recommended to me over and over so I just had to watch it :)

Also, for some reason, I thought you were talking about my Java configuration (which is why I was being so stubborn that my configuration was fine), not my Terasology configuration. That is completely my bad. Sorry. I don't have time for games at the moment, but I will try your suggestion later tonight. Terasology is indeed beautiful, an it would be nice to get a chance to actually try it out.

Ok great :D You will might need to edit it by hand (and not by the GUI), because the GUI seems to do things wrong.

I do know that what you do with the language matters, but so does the choice of language itself. Which is more important, optimized code, or an optimized language? Both are rather important, I think.

Yes of course, but Java is actually not that slow, so if minetest has heavily unoptimized code, and uses a heck of a lot of lua (which is a very slow language), then it will probably be slower than, say, terasology, where they use optimized Java, Java mods, and use a lot of shaders (which is one of the fastest, if not the fastest way to draw graphics).

Okay, duly noted. I'll edit the file by hand.

You can tell by the fact that Lua is indexed fro one (not zero) that the Lua designers didn't know what they were doing. And that's only one of its quirks. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a very unoptimized language

[lkjoel]

Ah. Movies and popular culture. Two things I am bad at.

Same here, it's just that the matrix was recommended to me over and over so I just had to watch it :)

Also, for some reason, I thought you were talking about my Java configuration (which is why I was being so stubborn that my configuration was fine), not my Terasology configuration. That is completely my bad. Sorry. I don't have time for games at the moment, but I will try your suggestion later tonight. Terasology is indeed beautiful, an it would be nice to get a chance to actually try it out.

Ok great :D You will might need to edit it by hand (and not by the GUI), because the GUI seems to do things wrong.

I do know that what you do with the language matters, but so does the choice of language itself. Which is more important, optimized code, or an optimized language? Both are rather important, I think.

Yes of course, but Java is actually not that slow, so if minetest has heavily unoptimized code, and uses a heck of a lot of lua (which is a very slow language), then it will probably be slower than, say, terasology, where they use optimized Java, Java mods, and use a lot of shaders (which is one of the fastest, if not the fastest way to draw graphics).

Okay, duly noted. I'll edit the file by hand.

You can tell by the fact that Lua is indexed fro one (not zero) that the Lua designers didn't know what they were doing. And that's only one of its quirks. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a very unoptimized language

Yes, exactly. If, persay, it used something like angelscript or pawn, then it would be so much faster, and plus, there wouldn't be as many useless mods :P

[0gb.us]

Yes, exactly. If, persay, it used something like angelscript or pawn, then it would be so much faster, and plus, there wouldn't be as many useless mods :P

Why would that cut down on the number of useless "mods"?

[lkjoel]

Yes, exactly. If, persay, it used something like angelscript or pawn, then it would be so much faster, and plus, there wouldn't be as many useless mods :P

Why would that cut down on the number of useless "mods"?

Because then beginners wouldn't work on mods, and people would think twice before starting one.

[rubenwardy]

I am trying to make it as non-bias as possible.

http://irc.minetest.ru/minetest/2013-03-12#i_2927751

[rubenwardy]

As I said, it's an issue with your configuration. Minetest is written in C++, but has lua mods, and lua is actually really slow. And minetest doesn't use any shaders, which makes it even more slow.

Minetest does have shaders, see the shaders folder in "client"

Lua is only run at server start up time.
minetest.register_<etc> registers a value in a table, so lua files do not slow mt down at all, and is not even run at game loop.

the problem is when functions are registered to run (eg: ATMS) but these are generally fairly fast, except for mods like Mobf and SimpleMobs, because they use heavy weight functions.

Pathfinding and ai will/may be added to core soon (I think sapier/jeija is working on it)

[Dopium]

Well i started watching minecraft videos on you tube and wanted to play it, although i dont really like to pay for games over the internet, so i looked for something else much the same. obviously i found minetest 0.3 as at the stage 0.3 was the latest minetest build and was far behind minecraft. For me minecraft had "greener grass" so to speak and i always wished i had minecraft, however over the last 15 months or so i think minetest has taken off. I played minecraft a few weeks back on a friends PC and was very disappointed, i feel minetest is alot more versital now. There is so much more to do and with certain mods i believe i have a better game then minecraft. No disrespect to minecraft or anything but i think open source is the way to go. The comuntity makes mods the player wants, rather then a company calling all the shots. To me Minetest is already starting to take over minecraft, but thats my personal opinion. 30000 block limit in all directions is alot better then minecrafts capped map. So many things i like more about minetest, i have no interest in minecraft anymore. Only thing i wish is the community will grow a little larger, more people interested in the game would be good. But im happy with the way minetest is coming along

[rubenwardy]

Well i started watching minecraft videos on you tube and wanted to play it, although i dont really like to pay for games over the internet, so i looked for something else much the same. obviously i found minetest 0.3 as at the stage 0.3 was the latest minetest at the time and was far behind minecraft. For me minecraft had "greener grass" so to speak and i always wished i had minecraft, however over the last 15 months or so i think minetest has taken off. I played minecraft a few weeks back on a friends PC and was very disappointed, i feel minetest is alot more versital now. There is so much more to do and with certain mods i believe i have a better game then minecraft. No disrespect to minecraft or anything but i think open source is the way to go. The comuntity makes mods the player wants, rather then a company calling all the shots. To me Minetest is already starting to take over minecraft, but thats my personal opinion. 30000 block limit in all directions is alot better then minecrafts capped map. So many things i like more about minetest, i have no intreast in minecraft anymore. Only thing i wish is the community will grow a little larger, more people interested in the game would be good. But im happy with the way minetest is coming along

Mc's map is only capped vertically to 255.
It extends to 4,000,000 blocks in every horizontal direction, compared to Mt's 31,000.