Lava is no longer renewable!?

[Mihobre]

Conservation should be more important than renewibilty. I like the idea that this is a game about exploitation rather than building. If you don't do a good job preserving and rationing your lava fields, you have two options: move west or die (or run out of lava). If you absolutely need infinite lava, mod in the nether or an infinite lava source. actually, having a world where lava can reproduce infinitely could produce some interesting situations, assuming you still had options for building and transport (floating islands above a lava world, anyone?)

Mese nodes aren't really "hundreds of thousands", maybe only hundreds. :D

[jojoa1997]

At least three people have suggested a poll, so I finally added one.

Also, ShadowNinja brought up a good point in-game today. What about liquid_finite? That's for making liquids finite. So enabled, liquids are finite. When disabled, meaning the administrator does NOT want liquids to be finite, lava (a liquid) is finite anyway.

that was one of my arguments in irc and it got me no where. They said finite is finite liquids and infinite liquids is lava and water but lava is non renewable. Then they wanted me to turn if ITE liquids and find a spring way underground and use that. So it became get infinite liquids from finite setting.

[rarkenin]

I like the deep springs of infinite lava idea. Call it something like "magma" to differentiate it, make it more damaging than regular lava, and have it start spawning at a higher frequency the deeper you dig, so that at a certain point you always run into a magma ocean, but have this be configurable, so if people want to dig down forever they can.

Yes, this is what I was talking about. Also make it only movable with a more valuable tool, i.e. a mese bucket.

[prestidigitator]

Huh. Interesting ideas. What about just making lava renewable if and only if you are below a certain depth? Move it higher and it becomes non-renewable. So lava needs the heat of the Earth to stay renewable, essentially. Might make some sense. Could also make water NON-RENEWABLE that deep. Or even make water evaporate quickly that deep, so it can't stay around for longer than a few seconds.

[Temperest]

That is an idea I can get behind, presdigitator.

[jojoa1997]

Huh. Interesting ideas. What about just making lava renewable if and only if you are below a certain depth? Move it higher and it becomes non-renewable. So lava needs the heat of the Earth to stay renewable, essentially. Might make some sense. Could also make water NON-RENEWABLE that deep. Or even make water evaporate quickly that deep, so it can't stay around for longer than a few seconds.

this is good as long as there is a pressurized container where we can store up to 99 nodes of lava

[0gb.us]

Huh. Interesting ideas. What about just making lava renewable if and only if you are below a certain depth? Move it higher and it becomes non-renewable. So lava needs the heat of the Earth to stay renewable, essentially. Might make some sense. Could also make water NON-RENEWABLE that deep. Or even make water evaporate quickly that deep, so it can't stay around for longer than a few seconds.

this is good as long as there is a pressurized container where we can store up to 99 nodes of lava

If we try to make it too easy, we'll never get our renewable lava back.

[jojoa1997]

Huh. Interesting ideas. What about just making lava renewable if and only if you are below a certain depth? Move it higher and it becomes non-renewable. So lava needs the heat of the Earth to stay renewable, essentially. Might make some sense. Could also make water NON-RENEWABLE that deep. Or even make water evaporate quickly that deep, so it can't stay around for longer than a few seconds.

this is good as long as there is a pressurized container where we can store up to 99 nodes of lava

If we try to make it too easy, we'll never get our renewable lava back.

i care for unlimited lava that is renewable with some challlenge

[0gb.us]

this is good as long as there is a pressurized container where we can store up to 99 nodes of lava

If we try to make it too easy, we'll never get our renewable lava back.

i care for unlimited lava that is renewable with some challlenge

I mean trying to get a pressurized container may not be a good idea. It would make it too easy. If PilzAdam thinks it's too easy, he won't give us back our sustainable lava.

[jojoa1997]

If we try to make it too easy, we'll never get our renewable lava back.

i care for unlimited lava that is renewable with some challlenge

I mean trying to get a pressurized container may not be a good idea. It would make it too easy. If PilzAdam thinks it's too easy, he won't give us back our sustainable lava.

sustainable lava is del under ground

[rarkenin]

Same here

Huh. Interesting ideas. What about just making lava renewable if and only if you are below a certain depth? Move it higher and it becomes non-renewable. So lava needs the heat of the Earth to stay renewable, essentially. Might make some sense. Could also make water NON-RENEWABLE that deep. Or even make water evaporate quickly that deep, so it can't stay around for longer than a few seconds.

+1000000000

But a better tool to move around the infinite magma should be implemented. Using a steel bucket, you get one bucket of finite lava. If you use the better tool(mese bucket), you get one node of INFINITE magma.

[jojoa1997]

What about obsidian buckets. Those were added in recently and have no other use besides decoration.

[rarkenin]

What about obsidian buckets. Those were added in recently and have no other use besides decoration.

Yes, that's the idea. Finite lava is used to make obsidian, which is used to transport infinite sources as such. The old bucket allows one to simply get lava from such a source, without moving the source itself.

[0gb.us]

What about obsidian buckets. Those were added in recently and have no other use besides decoration.

* 0gb.us runs to check Github

What? Grass is now buildable_to? That's lame. But also irrelevant to the topic.

I don't see anything about obsidian buckets on Github. Are you sere they were added?

[stu]

I vote to have renewable lava back. Not because I am worried I will run out, more because I dislike the un-realistic MC-like Obsidian.

Have Obsidian, sure but make it breakable like glass.

[Jordach]

You do realise PilzAdam will not listen to you and go straight over your heads right?

The one with push rights is the most powerful, either have the overlord do his work, or GTFO.

[rarkenin]

You do realise PilzAdam will not listen to you and go straight over your heads right?

The one with push rights is the most powerful, either have the overlord do his work, or GTFO.

Power doesn't imply being right or having the least bit of intelligence. Also, neither the inverse nor the converse are true.

[prestidigitator]

You do realise PilzAdam will not listen to you and go straight over your heads right?

The one with push rights is the most powerful, either have the overlord do his work, or GTFO.

LOL. Well, that's probably fine. But maybe we'll strike an idea here that he'll be happy with too. That's why I'm throwing stuff out there that might solve both the issues people are unhappy with and the requirements he was considering when making the change.

[jojoa1997]

You do realise PilzAdam will not listen to you and go straight over your heads right?

The one with push rights is the most powerful, either have the overlord do his work, or GTFO.

LOL. Well, that's probably fine. But maybe we'll strike an idea here that he'll be happy with too. That's why I'm throwing stuff out there that might solve both the issues people are unhappy with and the requirements he was considering when making the change.

i am not trying to get renewable lava back(even though it is winning in the polls) now i am trying to make a solution and not a change. i am trying to push for renewable lava through usingobsidian somehow

[0gb.us]

You do realise PilzAdam will not listen to you and go straight over your heads right?

The one with push rights is the most powerful, either have the overlord do his work, or GTFO.

True. I'm sure PilzAdam will do whatever he wants anyway. I do the same thing with 0gb.us_game. If a feature goes to far against what I'm after, I just won't let it be added. But we can at least try. We lose nothing by trying to lava rights back.

i am not trying to get renewable lava back(even though it is winning in the polls) now i am trying to make a solution and not a change. i am trying to push for renewable lava through usingobsidian somehow

If you can do that, I would be truly grateful.

[jojoa1997]

what about this makes obsidian M=mese fragment, O=obsidian fragment, C=crystal
FOF
OCO
FOF
mese makes obsidian fragments react to make lava.

[0gb.us]

what about this makes obsidian M=mese fragment, O=obsidian fragment, C=crystal
FOF
OCO
FOF
mese makes obsidian fragments react to make lava.

At that point, it consumes non-renewable mese. So it doesn't make lava renewable.

[jojoa1997]

But it gives made a way to use fragments

[0gb.us]

If you want to make mese fragments usable, that's a good goal. But crafting mese into lava doesn't fix the non-renewable lava problem, as it doesn't make lava renewable.

[prestidigitator]

I think it's adamantium that should be unbreakable, not obsidian. :-)

[0gb.us]

I think it's adamantium that should be unbreakable, not obsidian. :-)

Not adimantium, as it's an X-Men thing, but maybe plain old adamant, the mythical stone of impenetrable hardness.

Having adamant be hard to break would make more sense than having brittle obsidian be hard to break.

[prestidigitator]

The concept far predates the X-Men. But yeah, whatever you want to call it: adamant, adamantine, adamantium, adamantite, whatever. I was actually thinking of its use in D&D, but lots of fictional works use a similar term to refer to some rare ultra-resiliant metal.

[0gb.us]

The concept far predates the X-Men. But yeah, whatever you want to call it: adamant, adamantine, adamantium, adamantite, whatever. I was actually thinking of its use in D&D, but lots of fictional works use a similar term to refer to some rare ultra-resiliant metal.

Oh, well, my bad then.

[onpon4]

I'm a newcomer, so forgive me if I sound ignorant, but I'm looking at this... and I think some of you are seriously overreacting.

At the start of this topic, I see mention of fear that stone could become non-renewable, which doesn't make sense to me as a fear; basically the entire underground is made of stone. There's no way you're going to run out of that stuff.

Then I see some talk about "realism", that it's unrealistic for lava to be non-renewable, but what strikes me as unrealistic is two cubes of lava multiplying like bacteria to fill a giant bowl, or even existing as a liquid in a cold environment like the surface of the planet.

Alright, those are kind of silly, but the main point has consistently been that you're obsessed with your lava and absolutely must be able to always get more of it. And... without wasting hard drive space to make the world bigger, suggesting to me that you have a small hard drive. Well, fair enough. Why, though, can't you just use a mod? I see claims that mods aren't good enough because it isn't the core game, but... why? Mods are server-side, so if you're hosting a server, all you need is to use that mod that makes lava renewable. I just don't see what the problem is. The only guess I have is that you think most people agree with you, but even if that's true, majority opinion is not a good game designer.

As far as I can tell, making lava non-renewable is in no way going to destroy the gameplay experience. Only people who have played for a long time (enough that they actually use lava significantly) are going to notice at all, and those people probably know how to install mods.

[0gb.us]

At this point, it's not about stone renewability. It's about lava itself. Large scale lava projects will become much more difficult if this reaches the stable version. Renewable lava is feature we once had, but it has now been removed for no good reason. As an experiment, download the unstable game, and try filling a pool with water. Wasn't that easy? Now try filling one with lava. It's quite difficult. There's no good reason for that.

Anybody wanting realism from Minetest isn't thinking about what the game really is. Is a world made of cubes at all realistic? No. As long as Minetest's worlds are made of cubes, it cannot be realistic.

It's also not about "mods" not being "good enough". It's about not stripping good features from the default game. If you want to add features, go get "mods". There's no problem with that. The problem comes from taking things out that were once there. Things that no one was complaining about. Renewable lava was a good thing. The default game is what people get their fist look at. We shouldn't take away features that make it better.

By the way, making lava renewable again is winning in the poll. More people want to keep this feature than remove it. So why remove it? Coming in second is making is a configuration option. If we do that, everyone can be happy.